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CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

nytimes.com

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Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#221

Post by babypuncher »

russellbeattie wrote: post #180

This isn't "ironic" or a "creative solution", this is straight up censorship. Wow. China has basically made it known they will go after a company's employees. I'm sure that CBS is very concerned about general access to the Chinese market and don't want their shows banned for purely economic reasons, but the subtle threat of their Chinese employees disappearing because of a cartoon is a real thing . Let's say this was…

I'm going to call BS on CBS' excuse that the Chinese government would actually harm CBS employees in China over the companies production of content that isn't available in China.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#223

Post by babypuncher »

uberman wrote: post #44

Before damming CBS you might want to hear their motive. According to them the 90 second segment was removed because "such a sequence would endanger CBS executives on the ground in China" . If that is the true motive, I personally give them a pass. If this is about preserving safety of employees and not about profit, can anyone condemn them? This article written by a friend of one of the performers in the 90 second an…

I would like to see their evidence that the Chinese government would actually harm CBS employees over the airing of this clip in the US. The international shitstorm that would create pales in comparison to Saudi Arabia's assassination of Jamal Khashoggi. And unlike with Saudi Arabia, the current US government isn't too keen on being best buddies with China.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#224

Post by philwelch »

reaperducer wrote: post #201
amalcon wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming we are taking a US centric view here, I feel just the opposite: that speech has scarcely ever been so free. It was less than a decade ago that the U.S. military had a policy literally called "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". It was only fifty years ago that Martin Luther King Jr. was being investigated by the FBI, for speech that is now broadly considered necessary. About 100 years ago, check out the Sedition Act of…

"Don't ask don't tell" wasn't an attempt at censorship. In fact, when it was introduced by the Clinton administration it was hailed by LGBT groups because it allowed gay people to serve in the military. People have forgotten the context in which Don't Ask Don't Tell was created. Today people assume it was some evil, presumably Republican, plan to keep gay people down. It was seen as quite the opposite when it first s…

Agreed, and adding on: DADT was basically a non-enforcement policy. LGBT people were disallowed from military service for decades before 1993. Bill Clinton actually tried to remove that restriction entirely, but ran headfirst into political opposition. DADT was a "temporary workaround" that he could impose at the executive level to make some amount of progress, signify a successful compromise, and make the issue go away.

This was a theme of Clinton's early administration: he interpreted enthusiastic political support for him personally as enthusiastic political support for the sorts of progressive reforms he was trying to enact and ran full-speed into a brick wall trying to pass those reforms. Another example was the attempt to pass universal health care. After Clinton faced one of the biggest midterm electoral backlashes of all time in 1994, he changed strategy and never returned to the issue.

Clinton's legacy on LGBT issues (and many others) has to be addressed within the context of the times. Clinton faced a heavily resurgent Republican Party for 3/4 of his administration after spending the first 1/4 of his administration pushing for progressive reforms that were too far and too fast for most Americans. Clinton is unfairly remembered and blamed for the compromises he made at the time; in the greater context, Clinton's compromises were calculated holding actions that stemmed the tide of conservative reaction long enough for American public opinion to come around on these issues.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#225

Post by toomanyrichies »

markdown wrote: post #206
TomMckenny wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Most corporations have no more loyalty to one "side" or the other nor any more loyalty to an ideology than the Coke/Fanta hybrid-monstrosity of the 1940s. It took employees to force Google to reverse some of its policies, not its board of directors. At the same time, as the US withdraws from the world, China fills in. They zealously sell the surveillance state and its equipment world wide just as the US e…

> occasionally harmful American hegemony Occasionally harmful? Hundreds of thousands slaughtered in the middle east in the past two decades isn't "occasionally harmful! China isn't even in the same league when it comes to the harm of US hegemony.

> China isn't even in the same league when it comes to the harm of US hegemony.

No need to pick one or the other. There's plenty of hegemony from both to go around:

"The Communist Chinese invasion in 1950 led to years of turmoil, that culminated in the complete overthrow of the Tibetan Government and the self-imposed exile of the Dalai Lama and 100,000 Tibetans in 1959.

Since that time over a million Tibetans have been killed. With the Chinese policy of resettlement of Chinese to Tibet, Tibetans have become a minority in their own country. Chinese is the official language. Compared to pre-1959 levels, only 1/20 monks are still allowed to practice, under the government's watch. Up to 6,000 monasteries and shrines have been destroyed. Famines have appeared for the first time in recorded history, natural resources are devastated, and wildlife depleted to extinction. Tibetan culture comes close to being eradicated there."

Source- http://www.umass.edu/rso/fretibet/education.html

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#226

Post by philwelch »

ativzzz wrote: post #209
gscott wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that hundreds of thousands of Muslims are put into concentration camps and the world does nothing is amazing. I think that is how bad the world wants cheap stuff.

Nazi Germany had concentration camps as early as 1933 (Dachau) and nobody did anything either until they started invasions and a war. Most genocides have happened as the world watches and says "oh wow that's terrible we should do something" and then do nothing. This is simply how humans behave on an international scale. There is nothing 'amazing' about it.

See also: Armenia, Ukraine, Cambodia, Rwanda...

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#227

Post by tepidandroid »

toomanyrichies wrote: post #225
markdown wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> occasionally harmful American hegemony Occasionally harmful? Hundreds of thousands slaughtered in the middle east in the past two decades isn't "occasionally harmful! China isn't even in the same league when it comes to the harm of US hegemony.

> China isn't even in the same league when it comes to the harm of US hegemony. No need to pick one or the other. There's plenty of hegemony from both to go around: "The Communist Chinese invasion in 1950 led to years of turmoil, that culminated in the complete overthrow of the Tibetan Government and the self-imposed exile of the Dalai Lama and 100,000 Tibetans in 1959. Since that time over a million Tibetans have be…

> No need to pick one or the other. There's plenty of hegemony from both to go around

Indeed, there really is.

https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrociti...

[couldn't copy and paste an excerpt because it's far too long]

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#228

Post by AareyBaba »

simantel wrote: post #204
rocqua wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is doing that, the Chinese? Any terms to search for? This is the first I am hearing of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

Also nytimes has done several articles. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-m...

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#229

Post by smsm42 »

f5thesystem wrote: post #198
TomMckenny wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Most corporations have no more loyalty to one "side" or the other nor any more loyalty to an ideology than the Coke/Fanta hybrid-monstrosity of the 1940s. It took employees to force Google to reverse some of its policies, not its board of directors. At the same time, as the US withdraws from the world, China fills in. They zealously sell the surveillance state and its equipment world wide just as the US e…

The last couple of days I've been learning a little more about China's emerging surveillance state and while terrifying to think about and worse sad knowing they're building essentially concentration camps, I am wondering how effective are China's policies. i.e. does China's investment and push towards a controlled society actually come out ahead compared to if they didn't? Without looking at any figures, surely poli…

> i.e. does China's investment and push towards a controlled society actually come out ahead compared to if they didn't?

The same question people used to ask about USSR. USSR had it all - mass prison camps, massive industrialization programs, surveillance and terror state (of course, at different technology level), massive successes in some areas - like space technologies, unconditional love of all well-meaning people in the West, especially in academy and significant part of Hollywood - everything was there. Until USSR crumbled into dust. Turns out enslaving and oppressing people under the slogans of "most free society on the planet" is, after all, not sustainable, and free economy (even the semi-free one we're witnessing now) outperforms the socialist planned one. I don't think China would fare much better - though it may take a long time to see it, and sometimes it would seem like they have won - as was proclaimed many times by USSR fans over the course of 20th century.

Re: CBS censors a ‘Good Fight’ segment whose topic was Chinese censorship

#230

Post by sonnyblarney »

ativzzz wrote: post #209
gscott wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that hundreds of thousands of Muslims are put into concentration camps and the world does nothing is amazing. I think that is how bad the world wants cheap stuff.

Nazi Germany had concentration camps as early as 1933 (Dachau) and nobody did anything either until they started invasions and a war. Most genocides have happened as the world watches and says "oh wow that's terrible we should do something" and then do nothing. This is simply how humans behave on an international scale. There is nothing 'amazing' about it.

A) Nobody really knew about such camps.

B) The 'final solution' stuff did not happen until much later ie. i) scale and ii) death

C) That was in 1930. There was barely radio. There was no 'globalism' or 'global news'. There was no global awareness. What 'went on in Germany' might have been going on on mars.

It's 2019 now, China has no excuse, and we have no excuse.

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