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Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#231

Post by Karawebnetwork »

puzzle wrote: post #185
mettamage wrote: post #87

I just want to plug a client that I worked for that solves this problem: Healthy Workers. Healthy Workers is a Amsterdam-based startup that measures thing such as: air quality, CO2 and consented employee data (e.g. their sleep and focus) and makes an analysis what parts of the building have an unconductive work environment and how this can be improved. Conference rooms with bad air are the first problem they look at.…

Google has tracked office air quality for years, e.g. through the Aclima partnership. That's basically because Larry Page really, really cares about it. He's kinda like your friend with a Kubrick obsession that can't stop bringing up facts: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/727189428142235648 He was on to something! Jokes aside, I think he just has a heightened sense of smell and that's why he had air filters stron…

> I think he just has a heightened sense of smell and that's why he had air filters stronger than law requirements installed everywhere

Quite possible. I have a very strong sense of smell ever since I started hormone replacement therapy and it's driving me crazy how people can put up with some bad smells.

- I can pinpoint mold with a surprising accuracy -- it's everywhere, you'd be scared.

- I can tell when a bathroom is not properly ventilated -- had the office test it out and they changed the entire air ventilation system of that part of the building because it was not up to code.

- I could even smell if the driver in front of me is smoking in their windows closed car while I'm driving behind it with my own windows closed -- changed my air filters.

I'm absolutely certain that a lot of buildings are lacking in air quality and if I were the owner of any industrial or commercial building I'd make sure to invest in top quality air filter.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#232

Post by cwbrandsma »

jak92 wrote: post #79
Klathmon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was easily over 1000ppm IIRC. Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake up easier in…

> "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, Depending on your climate, this could significantly raise the humidity in your house. Reason is that moisture from the AC coil are wet after the AC turns off. Typically drips off into the pan until next time AC cycles. If you run the fan you will then evaporate into the air circulating some of the moisture just removed.

I live in a desert. If only that would release enough humidity to make a difference.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#233

Post by netcan »

ccffph wrote: post #32
netcan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is average outdoor air optimal?

The objective was to find an eco-friendly method to do so. Thus the living walls, and not just outdoor air intake (which would cost power to run the fans, similar to the energy footprint of running an AC). I can't comment on average outdoor air, but plants certainly helped.

Sorry.. I meant do expirements measuring cognitive performance relative to co2, find an optimal level, and if so is that level what you'd typically get outdoors?

I didn't mean "why don't you just open a window."

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#234

Post by verall »

tempestn wrote: post #221
Thiez wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man has a pretty good explanation in that case, iff there was a good reason to administer CPR. So what would it cost the rescuer, exactly? Unless you start undressing every unconscious woman you encounter, even if they seem to have no other problems...

People have been sued for injuries caused while performing CPR, so I could certainly imagine someone being sued for undressing a person (without their consent, obviously) to perform CPR.

Do you have a link for that? Every time I look into one of these/similar stories it is a shitty insurance company either heavily encouraging or basically forcing the suit if the person wants to be covered for their injuries at all.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#235

Post by bsmith »

_Nat_ wrote: post #227
notJim wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh god, it's already happening.

Plus the comment 4 levels up had "C02" rather than "CO2". I searched for why people do this 1337-substitution [1], and apparently the justification's that "C02" can be quicker to type on some mobile keyboards since "0" is a single press while "O" requires hitting Shift too. But in chemistry, we'd often write chemical formulae in linear format. For example, "H2O" is water while "C6H12O6" refers to some simple sugars.…

Plus, the comment 1 level up had "CO2" rather than "CO₂."

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#236

Post by Thiez »

tempestn wrote: post #221
Thiez wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man has a pretty good explanation in that case, iff there was a good reason to administer CPR. So what would it cost the rescuer, exactly? Unless you start undressing every unconscious woman you encounter, even if they seem to have no other problems...

People have been sued for injuries caused while performing CPR, so I could certainly imagine someone being sued for undressing a person (without their consent, obviously) to perform CPR.

You can sue anyone for just about anything. But it doesn't seem like a very winnable case to me. Maybe in some crazy jurisdictions. Many places have 'good Samaritan' laws that protect people who are not medical professionals when they cause injuries during a good faith attempt to safe someone's life. I would assume injuries to someone's modesty are included...

At the end of the day, would you rather let a woman in need of CPR die because you are afraid of maybe getting sued, with an even smaller chance of a conviction?

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#237

Post by CM30 »

Wonder what the effects would be like in a coworking space/open office environment? Would the levels of CO2 be higher in the likes of a WeWork than a typical office setup? I remember coming across one similar setup where about 30 startups were working from a basement with pretty much no windows.

Then again, wonder what it'd be like in the average subway train or something. Even with decent ventilation systems it feels like the issue would be worse in a packed train/station during rush hour, though the effects would be limited due to no one actually doing any work there.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#238

Post by iscrewyou »

CodeCube wrote: post #97

In a house with central A/C, does the crack under the door of a closed room/office suffice for properly ventilating and circulating the air?

That’s a subjective answer. I suggest you get a sensor and measure it yourself.

I plan on doing that for my place.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#239

Post by Shivetya »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #41
Klathmon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was easily over 1000ppm IIRC. Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake up easier in…

Helmets? That's interesting; I tend to open the visor a bit when at a stop, it gets really warm in there really fast. I know you shouldn't try to take off a helmet in case of an accident, but is opening the visor at least okay?

Helmets, hell think face masks people buy at the store to protect themselves from the lawn while cutting it. I tried one, felt like I was suffocating.

full face helmets can at times have the same effect if you bundle up to well during winter but I would be loathe to give it up

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#240

Post by ggreer »

If it is, it's not due to CO2.

The US Navy's submarines are run with CO2 levels varying from 300-11,300ppm.[1] The military did plenty of studies in the 60s and 70s and failed to find significant cognitive effects in environments as high as 4% CO2.[2]

> Thus, CO2 at 40,000 ppm for 2 weeks did not affect performance on multiple tests of cognitive function in physically fit young airmen, a population probably not unlike submariners.

> A number of studies suggest that CO2 exposures in the range of 15,000-40,000 ppm do not impair neurobehavioral performance. Schaefer (1961) reported that 23 crewmen exposed to CO2 at 15,000 ppm for 42 days in a submarine showed no psychomotor testing effects but showed moderate increases in anxiety, apathy, uncooperativeness, desire to leave, and sexual desire.

> In a 5-day exposure of seven subjects at a CO2 concentration of 30,000 ppm, Glatte et al. (1967) reported no effects on hand steadiness, vigilance, auditory monitoring, memory, or arithmetic and problem solving performance.

> CO2 exposure did not affect performance on the tracking task or any of the six RPM subtests (Storm and Giannetta 1974).

There's also an argument from biology. When sitting around, people exhale 4-5% CO2. That's 40,000-50,000ppm. An extra 2,000ppm is far less than the variance across a typical breath, and it won't increase ppCO2 in the blood stream nearly as much as standing up and walking around. If CO2 hurt cognition as badly as these studies claim, then even minor physical exertion should turn people into drooling idiots.

It's for these reasons that I am extremely skeptical of the recent claims about CO2 impairing cognition.

1. https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5#47

2. https://www.nap.edu/read/11170/chapter/5#54

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