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Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

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Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#21

Post by conanbatt »

lawlessone wrote: post #10
rossenberg79 wrote: post #2

Probably should replace the word “people” in the title with “criminals” to be more specific, and less click-baity.

Knew this comment would pop up. Some people genuinely want to live in the Judge Dredd universe..

Can't see the original comment, but I think americans don't appreciate that their system is amongst the most brutally repressive in comparison to south america.

In San Francisco you can walk down market and see people dealing drugs, but would never rob you. The former because the police have a no persecute policy, the latter because they have a no tolerance policy.

In places like Argentina or brazil, the mere sight of people like this means 100% guaranteed robbery. I believe americans visiting the wrong neighborhood in Argentina or Brazil would have deeply false sense of security, which is why they are prime targets.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#22

Post by gota »

hu3 wrote: post #19

edit: didn't know people downvoted statistics in HN. Conversely homicides in Brazil registered the sharpest decline in its history. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/22/brazils-murder-rate-fin... > One of the world’s most homicidal countries just registered the sharpest overall decline of lethal violence in its history. Brazil’s murder rate dropped by a whopping 13 percent between 2017 and 2018, from more than 59,000…

Yes, but this _nothing to do_ with the issue of military police preemptively sniping people in slums.

The drop in death rates is associated with 'peace treaties' between large criminal factions in peripheral states such as Rio Grande do Sul and, most importantly, Ceará. These factions have recently spread across Brazil (last decade and a half or so) and most recently, concurrently with the economical crisis of 2014~onwards, have been waging open war.

The article you linked even says:

> The drop in lethal violence started well before the election of the self-styled crime-fighter-in-chief, President Jair Bolsonaro, who was elected in October 2018.

Rio's governor (who enacted the sniping) was elected along with Bolsonaro.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#23

Post by brutally-honest »

delinka wrote: post #3
rossenberg79 wrote: post #2

Probably should replace the word “people” in the title with “criminals” to be more specific, and less click-baity.

Whose definition of 'criminal' are we using? Is it "anyone who dares defy police?" Or "someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was mistaken by the police as the person they were after?" Or maybe you prefer "anyone who is a target of police inquiry and lethal force because they're obviously guilty?" Until the evidence is presented and decided upon, people are not criminals.

How about "people openly flaunting assault weapons"? As someone who lived in Rio most of their life, I think that's a good line to draw.

Opinions filled with "human rights" concerns from people far removed are probably ethically and morally correct, which is... cute.

We're fighting an Urban War over here. This is a Concrete Jungle. This is a crazy post-apocalyptic situation to which most people in Rio grew accustomed to while most people outside Rio can barely picture.

As a police officer once told my wife as she was leaving her house in Rocinha and stopped to be patted down and inquired why was she being selected:

– Mam, do you know where you are? You are not in in Los Angeles. You are not in Paris.

My moral qualms went out the window around the same time my grandmother was murdered by being thrown off a bridge in Aterro do Flamengo.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#24

Post by GGfpc »

hu3 wrote: post #19

edit: didn't know people downvoted statistics in HN. Conversely homicides in Brazil registered the sharpest decline in its history. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/22/brazils-murder-rate-fin... > One of the world’s most homicidal countries just registered the sharpest overall decline of lethal violence in its history. Brazil’s murder rate dropped by a whopping 13 percent between 2017 and 2018, from more than 59,000…

That was before the record number of killings, which leads the question, will increased brutality of the police force improve or worsen overall security?

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#26

Post by brutally-honest »

Just posting this here in reply to a comment whose thread was flagged. Context is "whose definition of criminal should we use".

How about "people openly flaunting assault weapons"? As someone who lived in Rio most of their life, I think that's a good line to draw. Opinions filled with "human rights" concerns from people far removed are probably ethically and morally correct, which is... cute.

We're fighting an Urban War over here. This is a Concrete Jungle. This is a crazy post-apocalyptic situation to which most people in Rio grew accustomed to while most people outside Rio can barely picture.

As a police officer once told my wife as she was leaving her house in Rocinha and stopped to be patted down and inquired why was she being selected:

– Mam, do you know where you are? You are not in in Los Angeles. You are not in Paris.

My moral qualms went out the window around the same time my grandmother was murdered by being thrown off a bridge in Aterro do Flamengo.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#27

Post by kolbe »

hu3 wrote: post #19

edit: didn't know people downvoted statistics in HN. Conversely homicides in Brazil registered the sharpest decline in its history. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/22/brazils-murder-rate-fin... > One of the world’s most homicidal countries just registered the sharpest overall decline of lethal violence in its history. Brazil’s murder rate dropped by a whopping 13 percent between 2017 and 2018, from more than 59,000…

This might not be a coincidence. Police shooting people without due process isn't an ethical system of justice, but it could be an effective way to decrease the homicide rate. In many places, the most powerful gang can only be matched or beaten by the government. And if the most powerful gang is too difficult to deter from murdering people by using due process, having cops kill them would probably reduce the overall homicide rate (even if you tally the police killings as homicides).

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#28

Post by victords »

hazdiego wrote: post #11

Ironically, Rio de Janeiro is considered one of the safest capitals in Brazil [1]. The absolute numbers are high, but that's a huge city with millions of habitants. I lived there for 27 years in favelas like Rocinha and Santa Marta (when I didn't have money), and in apartments in Botafogo and Flamengo (after making money). I walked on the streets midnight and later. Nothing has ever happened to me. I've never even wi…

What is the actual source for those numbers? Rio is not one of the safest capitals in a very long time.

This article seems to be not only old, but very far from the actual numbers.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_unidades_federativas_...

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#29

Post by ramon »

Why is the Brazilian police officer wrong when he kills someone and why is any other officer in any other country right when he does the same? Mistakes happen it's part of this duty of being the police.

It's a matter of solving the issues it's the most important thing.

I was thinking about the other day since the police is so involved why not start investigating the police and what they own so you can understand where there are the bribes.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#30

Post by ericol »

hu3 wrote: post #19

edit: didn't know people downvoted statistics in HN. Conversely homicides in Brazil registered the sharpest decline in its history. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/22/brazils-murder-rate-fin... > One of the world’s most homicidal countries just registered the sharpest overall decline of lethal violence in its history. Brazil’s murder rate dropped by a whopping 13 percent between 2017 and 2018, from more than 59,000…

"the sharpest decline in history" out of coming from the most violent year in history (2017), mainly due to gang wars. Also, this particular story is about police killings only, that are up almost 18% from the same period from the previous year.
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