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Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

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Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#41

Post by WAHa_06x36 »

xfitm3 wrote: post #36
WAHa_06x36 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are from https://gab.com/popular right now: https://gab.com/brannon1776/posts/cDQ4dUJNKzIycHRib3ZKSU9lbT... https://gab.com/TheSeven/posts/NUZFZXQrTk9qS0tJVlo5SHZsYnFEZ... https://gab.com/Doomer90/posts/MERObDkzVHlKK2dISDg0OFE2Um9rU... https://gab.com/IKNOWTHETRUTH1488/posts/Q1VhM3h1REJNa05udE93... Is this really what you are wanting to defend? Is this just a "bad reputation" where "truth doesn't matter"?

Personally I don’t agree with any of that - but I’ll defend someone else’s right to be wrong.

That is easy to do when you are not threatened by these people.

But they literally kill people. And they will kill many more if they gain more power. Do you think those dead people will thank you for your brave efforts?

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#43

Post by busymom0 »

WAHa_06x36 wrote: post #31
busymom0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't 'debate' hate speech away. Not sure what your definition of "hate speech" is but if it includes racism, then yes, racists can change their mind: https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/08/the-white-sou...

Yes, through long-term building of trust and deep personal relationships. This is very, very different from an internet comments section, where it is basically impossible.

I would argue that internet comments section is exactly what's needed actually. Simply banning them away is basically hiding it under the rug. But that's not going to do anything productive. Banning them will now re-enforce their beliefs and now they will just go to another platform which will be an echo chamber of even more similar "hate" views. This brings up 2 problems -

1. Now we don't even know what they are talking about / planning some extreme crime etc 2. Those people are now only exposed to views which agree to their own points and not exposed to opposing views. So there's nothing which would even allow them to change their minds.

Humans aren't born racist / hateful. They learn it from the environment around them. By exposing them to more counter points, you can make them unlearn that hate too.

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#44

Post by [deleted] »

busymom0 wrote: post #27
madeofpalk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started using the extension as a generic comment section, then the bright light of day would cleanse it Browser extensions aside, if we've learn anything over the past two years of 'Online', it's that this simply isn't true. You can't 'debate' hate speech away.

> You can't 'debate' hate speech away. Not sure what your definition of "hate speech" is but if it includes racism, then yes, racists can change their mind: https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/08/the-white-sou...

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#45

Post by rincebrain »

Grue3 wrote: post #30
madeofpalk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started using the extension as a generic comment section, then the bright light of day would cleanse it Browser extensions aside, if we've learn anything over the past two years of 'Online', it's that this simply isn't true. You can't 'debate' hate speech away.

>You can't 'debate' hate speech away. Surely you can. To believe otherwise is to believe that hate is logically sound. It's just that people's standards for what constitutes "debate" have lowered so much (thanks to Twitter and its ilk) that it no longer holds any persuasive power. Consider that most people in the West were extremely racist just a few decades ago. It didn't take free speech suppression to change this…

I believe the view being expressed is that you cannot necessarily reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into.

Confronting people who hold a belief for reasons that are not necessarily based on facts or logic can result in them doubling down instead of reconsidering their position.

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#46

Post by dagw »

Grue3 wrote: post #30
madeofpalk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started using the extension as a generic comment section, then the bright light of day would cleanse it Browser extensions aside, if we've learn anything over the past two years of 'Online', it's that this simply isn't true. You can't 'debate' hate speech away.

>You can't 'debate' hate speech away. Surely you can. To believe otherwise is to believe that hate is logically sound. It's just that people's standards for what constitutes "debate" have lowered so much (thanks to Twitter and its ilk) that it no longer holds any persuasive power. Consider that most people in the West were extremely racist just a few decades ago. It didn't take free speech suppression to change this…

Anybody who has done any amount of debating knows that the 'winner' of any debate is the person who is more prepared and better at the abstract skill of "debating", not the person that is 'right' in any meaningful way. As someone who did a fair amount of debating in school I'm confident I would have won/lost every debate I partook in in exactly the same way even if I was debating the other side of the argument.

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#47

Post by zimpenfish »

kaolti wrote: post #40
WAHa_06x36 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even a little. If you actually have an argument, do make it.

Fair enough. Do you not see the problem with a monopoly deciding what is and isn't okay to say? You're comparing people who comment on websites to nazis? Did you not get the memo about the media calling everyone they don't like a nazi - including Pewdiepie? Do you really think these companies have YOUR best interest at heart instead of just siding with the political views of their shareholders?

> including Pewdiepie?

I think one Nazi-related mistake might be forgiveable. When it keeps happening, well, you've got to start thinking the tar on the brush is from the same pot.

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#48

Post by WAHa_06x36 »

xfitm3 wrote: post #39
WAHa_06x36 wrote: post #9

Good. Far-right hate is unacceptable, and no company with a conscience should ever support it.

Far left is no better than far right - nobody is even listening to each other anymore.

The far left is not killing people. The far right is, in significant numbers.

Do you see a difference now?

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#49

Post by popzq »

WAHa_06x36 wrote: post #34
popzq wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you expect from a website where people go when they get banned from everywhere else.

I expect people to maybe not make such a huge effort to protect and defend this utter garbage.

That's cool, not everybody has to like free speech; defending free speech or not is purely a political opinion, like many other issues.

Re: Mozilla and Google Chrome Refuse to Support Gab’s Dissenter Extension

#50

Post by dTal »

madeofpalk wrote: post #20
dTal wrote: post #13

This just seems short-sighted more than anything. It doesn't sound like there's anything technically wrong with the extension (indeed I have often wanted just such an extension), it's merely that the "wrong sort" of people use it. Well, banning it will keep the "wrong sort" of people using it. If everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started using the extension as a generic comment section, then the bright light of da…

> If everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started using the extension as a generic comment section, then the bright light of day would cleanse it Browser extensions aside, if we've learn anything over the past two years of 'Online', it's that this simply isn't true. You can't 'debate' hate speech away.

Even if that were true, it would still be possible to drown it. Flood the extension used by racists with an Eternal September of normal people. This is how we deal with extremist views in the real world - allowing them to sequester themselves together is what leads to the amplification chambers. Banning the extension just means that the people who already care about using it will continue to do so, while new users are pushed away.
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