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Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

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Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#431

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

lorenzorhoades wrote: post #429

I'm confused on why people actually care about global warming. That planet is in whats called a 'glacial age' on the historic time table of the earth. Yeah, we are rapidly depleting the ice caps (So what?) Yeah, we are slowly warming the earth. (So what?) yeah places like south florida are going to be underwater, and will potentially cost hundreds of billions (So what?). The point is, growth sacraficed now will have…

This reads like the most uneducated comment I could ever conceive. Do you honestly believe anything you just said? One simple google search will invalidate everything you say.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#432

Post by dean177 »

lorenzorhoades wrote: post #429

I'm confused on why people actually care about global warming. That planet is in whats called a 'glacial age' on the historic time table of the earth. Yeah, we are rapidly depleting the ice caps (So what?) Yeah, we are slowly warming the earth. (So what?) yeah places like south florida are going to be underwater, and will potentially cost hundreds of billions (So what?). The point is, growth sacraficed now will have…

We are not warming the earth slowly. We are heating the planet faster than it has been heated for as far back as we can measure.

Rising sea levels will not only cause trillions in immediate damage, they will displace huge population centres.

That will lead to poverty and ultimately war.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#433

Post by GreeniFi »

lorenzorhoades wrote: post #429

I'm confused on why people actually care about global warming. That planet is in whats called a 'glacial age' on the historic time table of the earth. Yeah, we are rapidly depleting the ice caps (So what?) Yeah, we are slowly warming the earth. (So what?) yeah places like south florida are going to be underwater, and will potentially cost hundreds of billions (So what?). The point is, growth sacraficed now will have…

I’m not sure if you’re playing devil’s advocate, but I’ll provide you with an earnest answer.

On the face of it, your logic holds. However, the reality is that we don’t really know how complex social/ environmental /financial systems will react in the face of climate change so your predictions, and your examples: Florida, polar bears are a very limited subset of possibilities.

As just one clusterfuck example with which I am familiar, but which is not much considered:

1. Increasing crop production volatility... 2. Leads to banks pulling credit lines to farmers 3. Which leads to 75% decline in crop production 4. Which leads to massive displacement of people 5. Which leads to...(something outside of my field of expertise but probably not good).

I’d prefer to avoid the above scenario, even though I’m not sure it’s possible.

Within our complex global system which is growth dependent for social stability, I wonder if applying the breaks will lead to devastating social breakdown.

Doomed if we do, doomed if we don’t.

This talk at Cambridge helped me think a little more about the issue:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR1C0DVEcZwaif9i6vxQs75...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#434

Post by dougmwne »

lorenzorhoades wrote: post #429

I'm confused on why people actually care about global warming. That planet is in whats called a 'glacial age' on the historic time table of the earth. Yeah, we are rapidly depleting the ice caps (So what?) Yeah, we are slowly warming the earth. (So what?) yeah places like south florida are going to be underwater, and will potentially cost hundreds of billions (So what?). The point is, growth sacraficed now will have…

The bell tolls for thee.

Life will survive, but we will not if we destroy the ecosystem that supports us. What will you eat when the soil produces no crops? What will you drink when the water is toxic? What will you breath when the air is no longer suited for your lungs?

The only reason people pay their mortgages to earn you compound interest is because they have hope for their future and their children's future. The future does not invent itself. We do that, one day at a time.

This is no laughing matter.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#435

Post by spurgu »

pvaldes wrote: post #414

To put things in context; If we wipe from the planet ALL vascular plants, all flowers and trees and ALL vertebrates, fishes, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals, the full pack, plus SIX major phylums of invertebrates including all molluscs, snails, clams and squids, ALL corals and jellyfishes, ALL starfishes and sea urchins, ALL sponges, ALL flatworms, parasites and free living, and every one tunicate described b…

That's just... crazy.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#436

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

wonderwonder wrote: post #395
kilroy123 wrote: post #120

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

I would argue that the increase in anxiety is due to the growing wealth gap. Compounding that is the fact that those in control are actively working on maintaining that gap and will allow nothing to stand in the way, including the environment. The gap is growing worse and will continue to do so and that relentless pursuit of wealth at the top and the hopelessness of those in the middle is making the environment worse…

Except, those “rewarded” will suffer the same fate as the rest. This isn’t a Hollywood story, there is no off-planet settlement and won’t be before it’s too late for humanity. I think people underestimate just how fast the shits gonna hit the fan. My guess is my kids will not want to have kids given the environment of their lifetime.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#437

Post by dragonwriter »

lorenzorhoades wrote: post #429

I'm confused on why people actually care about global warming. That planet is in whats called a 'glacial age' on the historic time table of the earth. Yeah, we are rapidly depleting the ice caps (So what?) Yeah, we are slowly warming the earth. (So what?) yeah places like south florida are going to be underwater, and will potentially cost hundreds of billions (So what?). The point is, growth sacraficed now will have…

> That planet is in whats called a 'glacial age' on the historic time table of the earth.

The planet has been in an ice age the entire time humans have existed on it.

It's probably good for humans for this to continue.

> Yeah, we are rapidly depleting the ice caps (So what?)

The ice caps reduce the degree to which incoming solar energy heats the earth; depleting them accelerates the warming due to greenhouse gas increases. While sufficient warming will reduce the rate of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions by killing lots of people, that's not only a suboptimal method of arresting warming if it would work, it doesn't necessarily work to stop warming—you actually need to reduce, not merely stop increasing, greenhouse gas levels to do that. Now, there are some natural processes that do provide some negative feedback, but it's not clear what their limits are even without new human emissions. And we have a dramatic demonstration in the planet whose orbit is nearest to ours of what a runaway greenhouse effect does to a planet that at one point had a climate that would be tolerable.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#438

Post by perfunctory »

ivanhoe wrote: post #396
perfunctory wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The huge problem with individual actions is that they make people feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they did their part, while actually the effects of it are minimal. How is this a huge problem? What's wrong about feeling good about yourself when you are doing something good? It's actually great. You help the climate AND you feel good. Win-win. Just imagine what a hell the life would be if doing some…

Problem is not that people feel good, problem is that they're concentrating on insignificant actions and it gives them a false sense of doing enough - so they stop at that, guilty-free, but without doing anything actually impactful. It's actually a very common form of self delusion, we all do that by drinking that diet-soda after we just ate a full box of ice-cream while on a diet, or in social media by liking and re…

I know what you are saying but I wouldn't call abandoning flying and meat insignificant actions. Liking and retweeting might be. Actions I propose are also very visible. It wasn't the main reason, but meeting vegetarians at work and in the friend circle certainly served as a helpful encouragement to reduce my own meat consumption.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#439

Post by mrnobody_67 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #259
kilroy123 wrote: post #120

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

I also have a theory. Anxiety is increasing because anxiety sells. The right leaning sites raise anxiety about immigrants. Left leaning sites raise anxiety that Trump is on his way to becoming a dictator. Environmental sites raise anxiety about species going extinct. Business sites raise anxiety about increase regulation and taxes. Meanwhile, humans are the best off we have ever been. This is one of the most peaceful…

Read "Factfulness" (one of Bill Gate's Top 5 books)... or Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker (or just watch the 15 min TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_is_the_world_getting... )

In most places, in most ways, the world is getting massively better than it even was 20 or 30 years ago...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#440

Post by mooseburger »

The U.S. and Europe can't actually do much about this though. Look at this chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_th...

If everyone in the US and Europe dropped dead, that would be about a 24% decrease in global GHG emissions. Said emissions need to be 40% to 70% lower by 2050, according to the IPCC (https://www.climatecentral.org/news/major-greenhouse-gas-red...).

Bottom line, you're not getting anywhere without a truly formidable effort by China, and likely Central/South America and Africa as well.

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