Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says • Hacker News Board

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#221

Post by wazoox » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

C14L wrote: post #202

kilroy123 wrote: post #120

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

The "Club of Rome" report[1] was published in the early 1970s. We've known for a long time. Still, most people probably still don't know, because they are too busy shopping for the latest shoes or cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth

Gaël Giraud (Chief economist of the French Agency for Development) said something along these lines: In economy, usually when someone builds a model that predicts the future for 18 months they later get the Nobel. The World III model from the Meadows Report almost exactly described the world for more than 45 years.

If we may think that it's still modelling our world exactly enough, complete civilisational collapse will probably come in the next couple of decades.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#222

Post by 52-6F-62 » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #164

52-6F-62 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is definitely an impactful idea, specifically red meat by quite a large difference comparative to other meats. This isn't exactly tenable for everyone, either. Some people [like me] need to fairly regularly eat red meat for the B12/Iron uptake benefits alongside supplementation. Instead the industry should be pushed toward larger changes like this: https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-eating-seaweed-can-help-c..…

That’s exactly it though. Conservatives are no doubt irritated by environmental jeremiads because they know revivals and camp meetings when they see them. Usually when this seaweed reducing methane stuff gets mentioned you hear crickets from the hair-shirt crowd

I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. Can you elaborate?

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#223

Post by komali2 » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

rv-de wrote: post #134

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

The best reason for exactly these individual changes you are describing is that - and this is a really funny and convenient coincidence - you are benefiting of them first and foremost yourself! > - Stop flying to conferences. Go to a local meetup. It's fun. And cheaper. If you really need to get out of town, take a train. No unnecessary hassle and stress from flying to far away places or getting stuck in traffic jams…

Chicken, fish, and turkey are some of the healthiest delivery mechanisms for protein on the planet.

They can be grown sustainably, as well, so again, veganism isn't required. At the supermarket, just get the expensive chicken breasts - I'm guessing the vast majority of us on this website can afford it.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#224

Post by gxx » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #89

gxx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this reason there is no hope that collective action through government pave the way to the solutions we need. Governments will only be forced to act when things are so bad that it's too late. There is also no hope that individual action will make a meaningful difference. Not enough people will care until things are so bad it's too late. Public corporations will not lead the way to a solution because they are only…

> there is no hope that collective action through government pave the way to the solutions we need I sort of disagree; the governments might be (as usual) the crucial element of the solution - they're the only actors on this planet capable of forcing a decision on masses, even if it goes against the wishes of the market. But getting the government to do the right thing sooner rather than later - that's the hard part.…

I agree with you that eventually governments are the only entitles that could implement solutions on a big enough scale. However it will be too late if this only happens when they are forced to act by social upheaval, mass starvation and economic collapse.

I challenge the ultra rich to put a substantial portion of their assets to work in funding large scale R&D on clean technologies, and simultaneously funding powerful lobbying of governments to act on climate change.

Another thought is that for better or worse we now have the tools for "social engineering" and campaigns might be funded to sway public opinion to support governments that support clean technologies.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#225

Post by jlokier » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #89

gxx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this reason there is no hope that collective action through government pave the way to the solutions we need. Governments will only be forced to act when things are so bad that it's too late. There is also no hope that individual action will make a meaningful difference. Not enough people will care until things are so bad it's too late. Public corporations will not lead the way to a solution because they are only…

> there is no hope that collective action through government pave the way to the solutions we need I sort of disagree; the governments might be (as usual) the crucial element of the solution - they're the only actors on this planet capable of forcing a decision on masses, even if it goes against the wishes of the market. But getting the government to do the right thing sooner rather than later - that's the hard part.…

> even if it goes against the wishes of the market

I agree with your general point, but I'd add that the market is itself an artifact partly created by government.

I think it's about time we saw more change to the market itself, which requires cultural change among other things.

For example: Insulating homes was mentioned earlier. Yet, more and more people are renting homes and can't do much to improve home efficiency because that's controlled by the landlord, and "voting with your feet" is financially out of reach. Same with working much less, or not commuting: It's not a serious option to those at the less lucky end of the competitive market for essential life goods and services.

Both of those result from a certain style of capitalism, which is arguably in crisis already, and both of those can be greatly improved, even while retaining capital, when there is a widespread change of cultural pressures about basic expectations of owners and employers.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#226

Post by dustinmr » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

kilroy123 wrote: post #120

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

Humans are good at being anxious due to the precariousness of life. Especially for things we don’t fully understand.

For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley's_Comet#1910

Why is the environment any different?

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#227

Post by perfunctory » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:56 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #209

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

Individual actions in this context are like trying to put down the fire with a single glass of water. It will certainly not hurt if you do it, but for it to have any significant effect you need everybody else to do the same at the same time. And the best way to have everyone do it is to push politicians to commit to it and create public policies to enforce it. The huge problem with individual actions is that they mak…

> The huge problem with individual actions is that they make people feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they did their part, while actually the effects of it are minimal.

How is this a huge problem? What's wrong about feeling good about yourself when you are doing something good? It's actually great. You help the climate AND you feel good. Win-win. Just imagine what a hell the life would be if doing something good felt bad.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#228

Post by zaroth » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:56 PM UTC

neuronic wrote: post #19

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

> Don't upgrade your phone. Seriously. The market makes this easy nowadays. Unless your phone is broken/severely outdated there is next to zero benefit to upgrading at this time. Prices for flagships become prohibitive as well. Upgrading phones every 1-2 years is a dead tradition outside of contract incentives, only relevant to hyper enthusiasts (r/android etc...). Even then I am not sure why aside from corporation b…

There’s a reason Apple sales are down so much YoY. People are already not upgrading.

Until recently there was enough to be gained from an upgrade every other year for most people. That is no longer true and the market sees that.

E.g. Going from 5S to an X is a worthy upgrade. That’s how many years of progress? You will feel the benefits every time you pick up the phone.

Turns out people are generally good judges of how to spend their own money.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#229

Post by inflatableDodo » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:57 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #211

inflatableDodo wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you enjoy your life transporting pollen with a paintbrush? https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/5193-De...

No, must it be paintbrush ? Is it crazy to think that human can't invent some kind of automation/technology to solve this ?

The simplest version would be a drone holding a paintbrush. Could do that now. China is one of the cheapest places to make suitable drones. Yet Chinese farmers are currently using paintbrushes.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#230

Post by slm_HN » Mon, May 06, 2019, 3:57 PM UTC

rv-de wrote: post #142

mfatica wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> meat is unhealthy - period. It's a nice to have but it is at the end of the day just not good for you. [citation needed]

I just invested 17 seconds into your health, buddy :) Here you go: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26780279

As others have already pointed out that paper doesn't say meat is bad, it says that the culprit is processed red meat. It's not the meat that's bad, it's the vat of carcinogenic chemicals that processes the meat that's the problem.

Just think about it a little bit, man evolved over hundreds of thousands of years eating meat, there's no way that it's bad for you.