Are you going to open a few "carbon neutral" gas stations? It might be great for publicity and marketing to open a few in dense urban areas with high gas prices (like LA and SF). Look at what the Apple and Tesla stores did for those companies. You could probably also charge gas prices higher than average by attracting the environmental crowd who would be willing to pay extra to fill their Priuses with carbon neutral gas. This would also work well as initially your supply will be small and still scaling up the process.
Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
231–240 of 589 posts
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#232You've elsewhere quoted 60 kWh per gallon of renewable gasoline. The US consumed 391.40 million gallons per day on average in 2018 [1], and concurrently had generation capacity for 1.153 billion kWh per day from non-hydroelectric renewable sources [2]. That suggests that full replacement of current gasoline usage would require ~23.48 billion kWh per day, which far outpaces what is currently available. Of course any r…
To replace all gasoline in the US, it will require a substantial increase in renewable power plants. We estimate it will cost approx. $1T to build that capacity, although the cost could go down as it is done. To put that in context, the amount invested in shale fracking in an 8 year period between 2010 and 2018 was approx. $0.7 T, so not as crazy as it sounds. https://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2018/july/investment-analy...
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
We could use the alcohols as fuels directly (in flex fuel vehicles), but this wouldn't address the much larger market for gasoline. It's a simple and inexpensive upgrade, so makes sense to do it. We will definitely take advantage of carbon credits, tax incentives, etc too!
If the alcohol upgrade to gasoline makes sense technically and economically for you, why is it not commonly done with (presumably much cheaper and extant in great volume) industrial alcohol today?
He said "inexpensive", not "economical". The whole process isn't economical yet. Perhaps conversion is more economical with their particlar sorts of alcohol though.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#234Very cool, looking at another solution to attack the global plastic waste problem with oil as an output.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#235Are you going to open a few "carbon neutral" gas stations? It might be great for publicity and marketing to open a few in dense urban areas with high gas prices (like LA and SF). Look at what the Apple and Tesla stores did for those companies. You could probably also charge gas prices higher than average by attracting the environmental crowd who would be willing to pay extra to fill their Priuses with carbon neutral…
I would actually argue that they'd be better off competing on price, rather than raising it (if at all possible and sustainable.) That way even the "but it doesn't run on gas" nuts would have no excuse not to get this instead.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#236Very exciting! I believe these types of approaches will be greatly beneficial in turning the tide of environmental change. However, I am curious about the long (very long) term effects of this technology.
If atmospheric CO2 becomes a resource for the production of goods that do not release the CO2 back into the environment for reuse, would there be a risk of O2 overabundance? If left unchecked it could overcorrect for global warming and usher in an ice age.
I imagine there’s a balance point for CO2 levels and finding and maintaining that balance will be what determines humankind’s success in the long (very long) term.
See, e.g., University of Maryland. "Rise Of Oxygen Caused Earth's Earliest Ice Age." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 7 May 2009. .
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#237You've elsewhere quoted 60 kWh per gallon of renewable gasoline. The US consumed 391.40 million gallons per day on average in 2018 [1], and concurrently had generation capacity for 1.153 billion kWh per day from non-hydroelectric renewable sources [2]. That suggests that full replacement of current gasoline usage would require ~23.48 billion kWh per day, which far outpaces what is currently available. Of course any r…
The real question should be: How much improvement over time in the efficiency of this process could be expected? 1.1x? 2x? 10x? 100x? Every new technology goes through a refinement cycle where costs & resources are reduced, and I would assume the same is possible here.
We will likely make improvements primarily in capex, power costs, and transportation to lower our cost of producing fuel. Fundamental thermodynamics and overpotential limits will hold our efficiency to some cap, likely 75% or lower. We could try to push higher than 60%, but there will be an optimum for capex vs opex that will probably not favor the highest possible efficiencies.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#238Rob -- doing something (somewhat) similar using plastic as an input (instead of co2) and getting oil as an output.
You mentioned you can compete with fossil fuels on (electricicity cost) that would be very dependent on where you operate (where the energy is cheapest). I suspect these would be the same places that bitcoin miners operate out from (and for the same reasons). Is this true ?
Thanks!
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#239Are you using anything to do with those nano-spike catalysts? Was one of the first things that came to mind when I read the pitch. - https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/intervie...
Not using nanospikes, but there are many proven heterogeneous catalysts now that can do the same job. Can't elaborate here, sorry!
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#240Rob -- doing something (somewhat) similar using plastic as an input (instead of co2) and getting oil as an output. You mentioned you can compete with fossil fuels on (electricicity cost) that would be very dependent on where you operate (where the energy is cheapest). I suspect these would be the same places that bitcoin miners operate out from (and for the same reasons). Is this true ? Thanks!
Yes, we could probably just generate a map of where aluminum smelters and bitcoin miners operate to give us our short list of early sites.