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Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#141

Post by MiroF »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #125
fcarraldo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can continue to enjoy your meat, but still ensure your diet contains a responsible amount of it. A diet with proportionally less meat is both healthier and more environmentally sustainable. I will never understand why Americans are personally affronted by the idea that they should eat less meat. What makes it such an insulting proposition?

In many places in America, the only (or at least the most vocal / visible by far) vegans you'll encounter tend to be weak, unhealthy, and obnoxious about their veganism. The hypocrisy makes it hard to take a rational look at the health benefits. These are the last 4 encounters I remember myself or someone close to me having with vegans: (1) Someone who spent 2 weeks traveling with family to a country that eats mostly…

I think has more to do with the fact that any sort of vocal veganism is considered obnoxious in the US. So yeah, anyone who tells you they're vegan will be labeled as obnoxious.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#142

Post by rv-de »

mfatica wrote: post #140
rv-de wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best reason for exactly these individual changes you are describing is that - and this is a really funny and convenient coincidence - you are benefiting of them first and foremost yourself! > - Stop flying to conferences. Go to a local meetup. It's fun. And cheaper. If you really need to get out of town, take a train. No unnecessary hassle and stress from flying to far away places or getting stuck in traffic jams…

> meat is unhealthy - period. It's a nice to have but it is at the end of the day just not good for you. [citation needed]

I just invested 17 seconds into your health, buddy :)

Here you go:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26780279

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#143

Post by selimthegrim »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #97
dragonwriter wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except it's also not. As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. That doesn't mean that US policy can't address the problem; US policy—on climate as well as most other things—need not be limited to domestic policy.

Exactly. For example the US could collect a "carbon duty" at the border on all imports. If the source nation has already collected a carbon tax or equivalent, it avoids the carbon duty.

Some people were hoping Trump’s proposed Border Adjustment Tax could have done double duty of this sort

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#144

Post by x3haloed »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #114

So? Isn't this just evolution in action? Isn't this what's supposed to happen? We kill off 1M species, we eat the planet, humans eventually go through a winnowing process, from lack of resources, or nuclear war, or AI, and in a couple hundred million years, everything adapts to fill out the prevailing ecology again. What makes us think we're so special? I'm only being partly sarcastic here. With 500 MILLION years of…

Careful - the belief in evolution as a sacred and holy process is what leads to racism.

I know you said you're half sarcastic, but that means you half-believe it.

Evolution is simply a process by which generations of organisms become more fit to their environment over time. Treating it as something more - some kind of natural state of the universe or hand of destiny is what leads to the idea that it's necessary to facilitate it or perhaps remain uninvolved to allow it to come to a natural completion.

That's a real compassion killer, and it pushes people to belive that their hate is righteous and that they maybe even should hate others in order to help facilitate the divine evolutionary process.

To re-iterate: evolution is an observed phenomenon of the universe. That is fact. The ideas that it should be prioritized or respected or enhanced or left to do its work are all subjective beliefs, and that's a choice.

Humans are a lot less important than we like to think. Less than specks of dust in this vast universe. But pretending that we have no impact or control of any kind in the process of evolution on Earth is just an attempt wash our hands of responsibility. There are many objective ways that human behavior meaningfully impacts the process of evolution on Earth. I don't have the time to find sources or anything, but extinction events, usually involving large animals, have been reordered many times following the arrival of humans to a geographical location. We have the ability to reflect on our own behavior and choose to bahave differently in the future. Given that awareness, do we not carry responsibility for our behavior? That last sentence is obviously not a fact or objective truth. It's an assertion based on my own beliefs in compassion and the importance of reducing suffering in the world, but I urge you to consider it.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#145

Post by graeme »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #114

So? Isn't this just evolution in action? Isn't this what's supposed to happen? We kill off 1M species, we eat the planet, humans eventually go through a winnowing process, from lack of resources, or nuclear war, or AI, and in a couple hundred million years, everything adapts to fill out the prevailing ecology again. What makes us think we're so special? I'm only being partly sarcastic here. With 500 MILLION years of…

>why is RIGHT NOW the PERFECT moment in planetary evolution which must be preserved exactly, no matter the cost?

Because it's the moment comfortable for humans and the civilization we built.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#146

Post by matz1 »

uptown wrote: post #118
matz1 wrote: post #62

The article wasn't very clear, how does extinction of one million species affect my well being?

Ecosystems are all interconnected. As an example, see "How Wolves Changed Rivers": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8448929 Now, imagine the impact of a million species being wiped from the earth.

There would be impact but if anything human are good with adapting and with technology. Is it impossible to image that these million species roles can be replaced with technology ?

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#148

Post by jellicle »

ckastner wrote: post #50
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

> For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. That's just disingenuous. Climate change has been a major point for numerous governments, there have been huge pushes towards renewable energy sources through subsidies, legislation, international treaties, etc. Yes, much more could be done, but claiming that nothing has been done is just polemics. It's disi…

More subsidies today flowing toward the oil industry than in 1989; each year the amount of CO2 we add to the atmosphere is more than the year before. The subsidies for solar panels, etc., although well-publicized and well-criticized in the conservative press, tend to be about 3 to 5 orders of magnitude lower than subsidies for the oil industry, which get no press.

2019 isn't 1989. We'll do vastly more environmental damage this year than we did in 1989.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#149

Post by kmlx »

Tepix wrote: post #130
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #114

So? Isn't this just evolution in action? Isn't this what's supposed to happen? We kill off 1M species, we eat the planet, humans eventually go through a winnowing process, from lack of resources, or nuclear war, or AI, and in a couple hundred million years, everything adapts to fill out the prevailing ecology again. What makes us think we're so special? I'm only being partly sarcastic here. With 500 MILLION years of…

The speed of change and extinction is vastly different this time. We know that a massive loss of species also threatens ourselves. We know that a rapid climate change also threatens mankind. Sure, you could argue that we're not worth saving. The human will to survive and its adaptability means we might be able to hang on, miserably vegetating on a poisoned world.

> The speed of change and extinction is vastly different this time.

What about the Chicxulub asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs? That would have been much faster.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#150

Post by MiroF »

mc32 wrote: post #138
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

There is one obvious thing you omitted. Population growth. We could do a lot to educate and help people in developing nations manage population growth better. China and to a great extent India have addressed the issue. Indonesia has not, for example.

As long as population growth is recognized as a problem in addition (and perhaps a bit less than) overconsumption - rather than a rhetorical guise used by people in the West to continue to justify overconsumption, I absolutely agree! Unfortunately, it far too often appears to be the latter
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