Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says • Hacker News Board

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#121

Post by swoongoonz » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

>For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating.

you spelled corporations wrong. sorry friend, governments don't run the world.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#122

Post by retrac98 » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #56

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

> “ Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. Don't go all the way vegan, but make meat a special treat not a commodity. ” No thank you. I know vegans have an anti-meat agenda and have been promoting this idea, however industrial agriculture as a whole is not sustainable, not just meat, and switching to a plants-based diet won’t save the planet. The elephant in the room is that sustainable farming needs to be…

> Sorry, but most vegans have serious nutrient deficiencies, like proteins, vitamin B12 or K2. Humans are meant to be omnivores, we do not have the digestive tract of herbivores to synthesize proteins or the ability to synthesize vitamin C like carnivores for that matter.

Do some research.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#123

Post by alltakendamned » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #113

java_script wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They majorly buried the lede in this article and species #536,112 is "human".

But referring from the title, human is not among the one million species.

As humans, we are dependent on our ecosystem for e.g. food production.

So a collapse of the ecosystem will lead to challenges for humans. You can't eat bitcoin once the bees are gone.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#124

Post by MiroF » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

stOneskull wrote: post #82

sc4les wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this sounds like typical carnist propaganda. Meat has some magical ingredient needed for health that no one can name? Almost all peer-reviewed studies show that vegans (diet done properly) are the only group within healthy range for almost all markers; most meat eaters are deficient in B12 etc etc. It is strikingly similar to smoking: educating the public takes a very long time, laws are always behind and good…

Like with most things, it depends. Something jumps in and shakes up the simplicity Sometimes it's an eskimo getting his vitamin C from animal organs.

Never do I hear so many ordinary people caring about the Inuit as when I mention veganism. Really makes you think

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#125

Post by TallGuyShort » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

fcarraldo wrote: post #102

navigatesol wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What a bunch of bullshit. I'm not a vegan, even though I'm sure you'll label me as having an "anti-meat agenda." I have substantially cut down on my own meat consumption due to the environmental impact. Do you fly less? Drive less or carpool? Recycle? Live in a small home? Did you decide to not to have children? Wear only used clothing? Do you track your trash and food waste? Do you eat less? Shower less? Do you do…

You can continue to enjoy your meat, but still ensure your diet contains a responsible amount of it. A diet with proportionally less meat is both healthier and more environmentally sustainable. I will never understand why Americans are personally affronted by the idea that they should eat less meat. What makes it such an insulting proposition?

In many places in America, the only (or at least the most vocal / visible by far) vegans you'll encounter tend to be weak, unhealthy, and obnoxious about their veganism. The hypocrisy makes it hard to take a rational look at the health benefits. These are the last 4 encounters I remember myself or someone close to me having with vegans: (1) Someone who spent 2 weeks traveling with family to a country that eats mostly meat, and spent the whole trip complaining about the food and lecturing the wait staff about their local culture. (and this as an adult - they chose to join the others on the trip) (2) Guy at the gym who lectured several people in class about their protein choices, whereas he's sick every other week, very weak, and lacks the endurance that even beginners in the class quickly develop. (3) Someone who showed up to a kids birthday party and complained about the non-vegan cake. (4) Coworker who came with the team on a lunch paid for by the company. Rude to restaurant staff who clearly speak English as a second language and didn't understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian.

Now that's not meant as an insult to all vegans - I've switched to a mostly vegan diet myself. But you can almost entirely cut animal products out of your diet without needing to be a dick to people when they graciously serve you something else, or without lecturing people about health when you look like a late-stage AIDS victim. I think that puts people off. And yes, there's plenty of American meat-eaters who are equally obnoxious and close to death. But nobody wonders why people don't like them. Just more polarization because the other side's too extreme, so people go further the other way.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#126

Post by ckastner » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

perfunctory wrote: post #95

ckastner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. That's just disingenuous. Climate change has been a major point for numerous governments, there have been huge pushes towards renewable energy sources through subsidies, legislation, international treaties, etc. Yes, much more could be done, but claiming that nothing has been done is just polemics. It's disi…

> It's disingenuous to claim that 2019 is basically 1989. Yes, it's much worth. Sorry, the governments might be doing something, but I just look at the PPM and global emissions charts and they just keep going up.

You know what else keeps going up? The world population, from 5.2 billion in 1989 [1] to 7.7 billion today.

Yes, the PPM and global emissions charts keep going up. However, they are doing so at a much smaller rate than would be the case if governments would be doing today what they were doing in 1989.

Especially in Europe, we have see dramatic pushes towards renewable energy on the one side, and energy efficiency on the other.

A headline such as "Germany produces enough renewable energy in six months to power country's households for an entire year" [2] would have been unthinkable 30 years ago, and to claim that this is not a major development is just BS.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population_estimates

[2] https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/renewable-energy-g...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#127

Post by agentultra » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #56

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

> “ Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. Don't go all the way vegan, but make meat a special treat not a commodity. ” No thank you. I know vegans have an anti-meat agenda and have been promoting this idea, however industrial agriculture as a whole is not sustainable, not just meat, and switching to a plants-based diet won’t save the planet. The elephant in the room is that sustainable farming needs to be…

> Sorry, but most vegans have serious nutrient deficiencies, like proteins, vitamin B12 or K2. Humans are meant to be omnivores

Hi, I went to high school too.

Unfortunately for you this isn't true. Humans are quite capable to adapt to a meatless diet and remain healthy. You don't need the levels of protein suggested by many government adopted food guides or athletic trainers. We actually consume far more protein than is necessary for the average person.

I haven't eaten meat in years. I run 5k twice a week, cycle everywhere when the weather is good, and my doctor says I'm in good health. It's definitely possible to be healthy and not eat meat.

There are exceptions! I have friends who are allergic to complex plant-based proteins. There are people from ethnic and cultural groups who are also not able to switch to an entirely plant-based diet. That's fine! There will always be exceptions.

However the majority of us are able to reduce our meat consumption and given the current climate and indications of where it's heading I think it's great that this is finally coming to light.

> If you want policy, ask the lawmakers to stop subsidizing corn and wheat.

As far as I know, in my limited knowledge of the matter, a large part of the produce from those subsidies goes to feeding cattle. The backtracking of the Brazilian rain forest seems to be in large due to soy crops to feed cattle. (It appeared as though the campaigning to save the rain forest in the 90's was working until about the mid-aughts when it started to revert... fast).

The majority of crops are going to feed the meat industry to feed an even smaller population of humans. If enough of the human population adapted to a plant based diet we wouldn't even need most of those crops.

I used to hold the, "humans are omnivores," opinion but.. it was just an opinion. There have been some eye-opening documentaries in recent years shedding light on the data and political forces used to ensure the survival and growth of the meat industry. That's what tipped me over... being lied to that meat was such a critical part of my health when it's not... and that such campaigning has been harming the environment and hurting the climate -- something that does affect me more than missing bacon. I can live without bacon if it means my kids and their kids have a chance at making it through the next 100 years of damage coming their way.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#128

Post by wongarsu » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #114

So? Isn't this just evolution in action? Isn't this what's supposed to happen? We kill off 1M species, we eat the planet, humans eventually go through a winnowing process, from lack of resources, or nuclear war, or AI, and in a couple hundred million years, everything adapts to fill out the prevailing ecology again. What makes us think we're so special? I'm only being partly sarcastic here. With 500 MILLION years of…

Its perfectly normal for hunter and prey populations to oscillate. The hunters hunt a lot of prey, multiply, overhunt, prey population goes down, many hunters starve, prey population recovers and the cycle repeats. You see that a lot in animals, and humans are not immune to this. But as a species we might have overdone it, and nobody wants to see the crash as the ecosystems we rely on collapse.

It won't be the end of the planet (whatever that even means), it won't be the end of life on earth's surface, it likely won't even be the end of humanity. But it might mean a lot of human death and suffering that could be avoided.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#129

Post by _Microft » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #101

perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

Dude, none of the things what you suggest would make any impact. For me, personally - but those were kind of personal suggestions. I haven't flown anywhere in three years, and certainly don't visit conferences. "- Start working part time, and part of that part time remotely. Reduce your commute. " Uh, what? I commute by bike and with the bus in the winter. I don't really see how stopping that would contribute. "- If…

Nope, you just have reached the point that others haven't yet.

Your carbon footprint is much lower than theirs for sure and trying to convince someone with a higher footprint to change will be vastly more efficient than trying to squeeze the last kilogram of carbon emission reduction out of your own life.

Thanks for the effort by the way!

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#130

Post by Tepix » Mon, May 06, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #114

So? Isn't this just evolution in action? Isn't this what's supposed to happen? We kill off 1M species, we eat the planet, humans eventually go through a winnowing process, from lack of resources, or nuclear war, or AI, and in a couple hundred million years, everything adapts to fill out the prevailing ecology again. What makes us think we're so special? I'm only being partly sarcastic here. With 500 MILLION years of…

The speed of change and extinction is vastly different this time. We know that a massive loss of species also threatens ourselves. We know that a rapid climate change also threatens mankind.

Sure, you could argue that we're not worth saving. The human will to survive and its adaptability means we might be able to hang on, miserably vegetating on a poisoned world.