Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE • Hacker News Board

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#461

Post by carrja99 » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:03 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #457

StevePerkins wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> webassembly [is] eating JVM's cake It's hard for me to take all the "Java is dying" threads seriously when they don't even seem to understand where Java plays. Webassembly ? Really? That's a client-side tech, and 99.999% of Java devs ceded the browser battleground pre-9/11. Java's bread and butter is EAI, ETL, and server-side business application development. Particularly with pieces requiring heavily distributed d…

And then there's the evil implication of this aging, entrenched ecosystem. Companies who wrote their Java development process documentation did so in the 90's, with guidance from IBM or a "big 3," and now treat EVERY project in the business as though it was the same scale and complexity as the mainframe projects they were trying to supplement. Which is why it takes 6 months for me (on the FAST TRACK!) to even get a d…

LOL... someone woke up in the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#462

Post by needusername » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

altfredd wrote: post #162

dtech wrote: post #52

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Too little too late, and I highly doubt that (5-year-old) Valhalla will deliver even one of the promised features (value types) in the next 3 years. Remember that the original plan was to have all Valhalla features in Java 10. Java/JVM was in the ideal position to dominate the software world for the whole 21th century 15 years ago. Instead they did an IE6 and stagnated for so long that their competitors became plain…

> Too little too late, and I highly doubt that (5-year-old) Valhalla will deliver even one of the promised features (value types) in the next 3 years I never understood the purpose of Valhalla. They should just introduce a 128-bit scalar type and call it a day. Nobody actually cares about automagically storing value types in HashMap — all interested parties (HFT, computing) have already written dedicated collection l…

> Nobody actually cares about automagically storing value types in HashMap

I agree. When I look at the allocation profiles and heaps of our Java applications (which I assume to be fairly typical Java enterprise applications) boxed types do not show up. What really matters are Strings, both in the heap and the allocations.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#463

Post by pjmlp » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #452

pjmlp wrote: post #392

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Religion is the way you happen to defend your switch to . NET in every HN thread, even more than I bash C for, and from your story a certain uncertainty regarding what you got on the CV. Selling services is so much more than tech stacks.

So you have forgotten about the threads that you responded to where I was advocating for native desktop apps over cross platform apps, where I spent years doing C++/MFC, Like this quote: But seeing that I like the optionality of working for any of the dozens of companies that have job openings continuously for JavaScript, C#, C, C++, and even Python, I think I’ll stick with those....

It is hard to keep track of all answers, just complains about being stuck in tech X and how .NET has saved your life from whatever.

Which yeah, might have been the point, but hardly a picture of the global job market.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#464

Post by pjmlp » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #458

pjmlp wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, where are those contributors? Companies that just repackage Oracle's work don't count.

Pivotal is hiring for JDK/JVM development. Worldwide. If you're at Oracle and you want out, drop me a line or do a search for "JDK" at https://pivotal.io/careers/openings Several companies outside Oracle already employ JDK folks (IBM, for example). I expect that increasingly our partners and competitors will do the same.

So which JEPs on OpenJDK are being done by Pivotal? I fail to find them.

IBM does minor contributions to Java, and mainly follows the language specification non their own JVMs.

IBM was also the only company that bothered to make an initial proposal to acquire Sun, but withdrew it after Oracle's.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#465

Post by pjmlp » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

polotics wrote: post #110

pjmlp wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt it is pure Python.

Read up on it, very interesting

Then you should check their engineering blog, as they have ported some of the critical services to C++.

Additionally none of their mobile apps is written in Python.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#466

Post by pjmlp » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

erik_seaberg wrote: post #296

pjmlp wrote: post #50

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Except that Kotlin still lags behind Java compiler speed and it is heavily dependent on Java libraries.

Compiler speed is a fantastic tradeoff. I'm made of meat that runs at maybe 0.0001 MHz after coffee, so I want to offload anything I can to the compiler!

I rather bet in platform languages, without extra layers to debug, FFI and additional tooling not available to all IDEs for the respective platform.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#467

Post by jacques_chester » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #464

jacques_chester wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pivotal is hiring for JDK/JVM development. Worldwide. If you're at Oracle and you want out, drop me a line or do a search for "JDK" at https://pivotal.io/careers/openings Several companies outside Oracle already employ JDK folks (IBM, for example). I expect that increasingly our partners and competitors will do the same.

So which JEPs on OpenJDK are being done by Pivotal? I fail to find them. IBM does minor contributions to Java, and mainly follows the language specification non their own JVMs. IBM was also the only company that bothered to make an initial proposal to acquire Sun, but withdrew it after Oracle's.

That Oracle employees are the dominant contributors today is only evidence of the state of the world today.

Oracle is not owed indefinite fealty by folks locked into serfdom. Everyone working on the OpenJDK is entitled to work on it with someone else paying them.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#468

Post by pjmlp » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

iSnow wrote: post #449

pjmlp wrote: post #261

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What matters is that it brings money home. Maps uses Clojure, and is partially developed here in Berlin.

Wait, what, Apple Maps is partially developed in Berlin?

Yes, or at least it used to be around two years ago.

Just keep monitoring their job openings in Germany.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#469

Post by pjmlp » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #467

pjmlp wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which JEPs on OpenJDK are being done by Pivotal? I fail to find them. IBM does minor contributions to Java, and mainly follows the language specification non their own JVMs. IBM was also the only company that bothered to make an initial proposal to acquire Sun, but withdrew it after Oracle's.

That Oracle employees are the dominant contributors today is only evidence of the state of the world today . Oracle is not owed indefinite fealty by folks locked into serfdom. Everyone working on the OpenJDK is entitled to work on it with someone else paying them.

So many words and no JEP contributions to show.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#470

Post by mercer » Sun, May 05, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

marak830 wrote: post #345

mercer wrote: post #308

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Perhaps the biggest 'bang for your buck' would be Javascript or Python. The former because it's everywhere, and the latter because it's almost everywhere and probably more pleasant than the former. And possibly better if you're time-constrained, because you could pick one of the areas where it's a staple. Either way, both are quite un-windows, and un-corporate, but used all over the place. I'm suggesting them because…

Actually (about 7+ years ago?), I did dip into python and wrote a stock taking and auto order generating system for one of my kitchens in it, never really got the chance to revisit it after that though. I do remember how surprised I was at how quickly I got it done (I was coming from vb6 at the time). I may have some automation things I can do at my work soon, I might write up a blog about that, interesting idea! (Qu…

If you're into IoT type stuff (or other real-time thingies) I can also recommend Elixir. It's my current favorite language and very good for these things (https://nerves-project.org/).

The downside is that it's not a very mainstream language. The upside is that it's arguable one of the more 'unique' languages out there (alongside Erlang), and IMO just really fun.