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People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

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Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#61
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive read some of the book "The Art of Empathy", in which the author describes anger as "the prideful sentry." I like this way of thinking about it. Clearly, any emotion when taken to the extreme is bad, and anger is perhaps the most obvious example -- yet I would hesitate to call its existence useless, even in a modern context. Anger & pride both have functions as "alarm systems" for circumstances which would be detr…

I agree. No emotion or sensation is 'useless', because they all serve to tell us about what's going on inside and around us. I suppose that's the key here. We can listen to anger and fear all day, but we don't have to connect that high-charge wire to whatever machine it's telling us to. It's really important to observe the feelings and not let it get out of control. It's also critical to understand why the feeling ca…

> It's really important to observe the feelings and not let it get out of control. It's also critical to understand why the feeling came, how it developed, and what it means about ourselves.

You just described Emotional intelligence, which I gained by practising Yoga, meditation and stoicism. I used to be neurotic and my anxieties ruled me. I didn't get angry often but when I did it was explosive. People were often surprised cause they never thought I could be like that. Three years ago, burnt out, feeling empty and seeking purpose, I quit working and began searching. Trust me when I say that I had no idea what I was searching for. I just needed to search for 'meaning' and purpose. It led me to yoga and meditation and my life began to change. I started to gain Emotional intelligence and better control of my nerves. It was like I was born again. My anger outbursts slowly disappead. I able to observe About a year after I began yoga and meditation, I got a copy of The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday and I got even better. After 3 years I went back to work.

I practice yoga and meditation with my kid. It was hard at first, but I tried to make it fun for her. Now she enjoys it. I teach her about Emotional intelligence and read the daily Stoic with her when I can. She loves Epictetus :)

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#62
Since neither the article nor the comments have mentioned game theory, I will mention it.

A game-theoretic threat is a statement that, if you do something that hurts me (and might benefit you), then I will do a thing that hurts both of us. It's clear why "hurting you" is a critical part of the threatened action; the reason "hurting me" is included is that if it benefited me, then we'd assume I would do it anyway. The puzzle of the threat is then, how can I convince you I'll do something that will hurt me? Well, if I could modify my brain such that I will be determined to do something violent to you even at great risk to myself, that would be a great solution. Anger is an emotion that does exactly this. Even better, if it is generally understood that any violations of my body (or whatever I want to protect) will trigger an anger response in me, then I don't have to make specific statements towards people I come across.

One can imagine variations on this: (a) if you know someone else has an anger response, and you want to do something that you're worried might trigger it, then maybe you can do a light-touched version of it and see if you can detect the beginnings of their anger response; (b) if you get into fights too often, you might give a "warning" (growl) response first.

It's interesting to think how these things might have evolved, because there are two sides to them. Anger is useless—counterproductive, in fact—if no one else understands before they act that you might become angry. And if anger doesn't exist, then detecting anger wouldn't be a useful trait. What came first, then? I would guess that some animals evolved a fight-or-flight response to deal with predators (because that increases survival chances), and the triggering mechanism was probably clumsy enough that it happened in non-life-threatening scenarios and caused needless violence (with negative expected value to all parties), and that led to animals either being able to see the early stages of fight-or-flight, or having a sense of what will trigger fight-or-flight and avoiding doing those things (unless they plan to win the fight). (The fight-or-flight response is probably reasonably obvious to observe—muscles tensing, freezing or making sudden movements, etc.—so at least predators should have gotten good at noticing it, to become more efficient.)

I don't know what research has been done on the evolutionary origins of anger. But it makes so much game-theoretic sense—and I have the impression that mammals in general have an anger response; quick googling gives mixed results about reptiles—that I'm very confident that what we would call anger evolved because it was useful for backing up an implicit threat of "don't violate my body or other things important to me, or else I will become violent". Yet I didn't see any discussion of evolution or game theory in either the article or the study. Those would seem to be important for forming hypotheses and interpreting results.

Anyway, for the threat to work, the "I will become violent" must be a strong compulsion (taking away the choice to not carry out the threat) and/or value-adjustment (so carrying out the threat now looks like the best thing to do). Either might subjectively feel like a loss of control, or not. Given that evolution has successfully implemented this feature, the subjective feeling seems like an implementation detail to me—maybe useful in learning to manage your own anger response.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#63
post #24

From the first paragraph: "...they often say that... they didn’t feel responsible for those actions – they “lost control”.... In the UK, under certain circumstances, a person accused of murder can even claim that this “loss of control” led to them killing their victim. If successful, this defence can reduce charges to manslaughter." I am surprised at this line defense (not a lawyer, of course). At the risk of creatin…

Isn't there a distinction between manslaughter and a premeditated murder in most jurisdictions? Where I'm from, impulsively killing someone in a burst of anger ("a crime of passion") is definitely different from a cold-blooded murder in the eyes of the law.

In the US, premeditation is the distinction between 1st and 2nd degree murder.

Manslaughter is a lesser offense, for when there was no intent of homicide but the perpetrator is nonetheless responsible: say someone decides to juggle axes on a balcony and drops one on someone’s head.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#66
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a distinction between manslaughter and a premeditated murder in most jurisdictions? Where I'm from, impulsively killing someone in a burst of anger ("a crime of passion") is definitely different from a cold-blooded murder in the eyes of the law.

In the US, premeditation is the distinction between 1st and 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is a lesser offense, for when there was no intent of homicide but the perpetrator is nonetheless responsible: say someone decides to juggle axes on a balcony and drops one on someone’s head.

Ah, right. Mixed up the terms.

Re: People's sense of control over actions is reduced when angry or afraid: study

#67

Anger is such an interesting experience in that (if this study is correct) we tend to actually lose agency while angry, but internally I think we actually believe we have dramatically increased agency in the moment. That's part of what makes anger so dangerous. We're basically at maximum stupid while angry. Do you ever get angry and suddenly feel a loss for words? Difficulty articulating arguments? Resorting to less…

> "I've dealt with an ill temper my entire life, although not many people who know me would think so. As a kid I was bullied a lot (both of these are likely direct products of me having ADD), and I used to get in a lot of trouble because my reaction was to let my rage boil over and fight these bullies."

Look into Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It comes with ADHD, but it can exist on its own or with other uncommon neurologies.

https://www.additudemag.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-ad...

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