Live data from Hacker News

America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

nytimes.com

101–110 of 314 posts

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#101
post #77

"Financial engineers" aren't interested in building a sustainable business; they want to play a game cleverly, make a cash-grab, jump ship, and leave thousands dealing with the fallout. It's a similar short-term strategy to that taken by many SV founders who build a company only to sell it, though obviously the latter don't cause nearly the same degree of harm to society. But they still pass on opportunities to creat…

I love the term financial engineers. In my head, it defines the person, the procedure, and the purpose.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare to social media games like Farmville - most people might spend money they personally consider excessive, but that balances out with some other forms of entertainment. Meanwhile I've heard they had people spending upwards of $10k PER MONTH. Enough so that it wasn't "that one weirdo". So while the "average" owner might have 1-3 guns (in this case), and the average "fanatic" might have 5-10, you have enough obse…

Carefully does not look at Steam/GOG libraries with hundreds of games

Carefully does not peek inside home shop to see tons of crap (aka - "vintage computers and robotics") purchased from hamfests...

/sigh

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an intriguing trend in the United States where, for the past several decades, the number of gun owners has gone down but the number of guns has gone up.

It's not really intriguing when you consider that non-hispanic whites are the most likely to own firearms, and that that group's size has been essentially stagnant for the past few decades and is currently in decline.

Collectors and others of similar nature aside, I tend to wonder if this is going to lead to problems in the future?

I'm not anti-gun by a long shot (no pun intended), but pictures I have seen of some of these "collections" are staggering (like, enough guns and ammo to arm a small platoon of people).

In many cases they aren't displayed as a collection, but closer to a weapons cache in waiting...for what kind of situation I don't know.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#104
post #36

> Because private-equity firms appear frequently as villains in the press, many people assume that they cater mostly to the superrich, earning high returns on investments for billionaire clients. They do. But by far the most important piece of their business — 48 percent, according to the data-analytics firm Preqin — is investing capital for American pension funds. This doesn't get mentioned often enough when talking…

> This doesn't get mentioned often enough when talking about the "1-percenters" and the wealth gap in Western countries, i.e. that most of the capital behind all of the current economic and social system is directly or indirectly held by part of the general populace itself.

I think the keyword there is indirectly. It's still easy to blame the 1-percenters for the proportional lion's share of the blame when the majority of the general populace's influence/control over their investments is intentionally gatekeeped and/or obfuscated by "professional finance" people, many of whom are 1-percenters or wish-they-were.

In the case of legitimate pensions that is top-to-bottom controlled by finance people with almost zero control from the average pension.

In the case of the modern faux-pension, the 401k, while most individuals could take direct control of how they invest those funds, and that's supposedly a feature, very few actually do/will, because the game is rigged (401k providers have a lot of vested interests in promoting their investment products where they make the most fees) and also a full time job that the 401k "owner" doesn't need on top of their existing job that pays into the 401k in the first place (again, giving the 401k providers the benefit of defaulting people their investment products with the most fees).

Even further, the push to "personal responsibility" to the individual in a 401k system also removes a lot of power of the general populace to collectively bargain as investment holders. Under the regime of traditional pension systems a lot of hedge funds were checked by pension managers when employee/pensioner interest was kept in mind (especially in the cases where pensions were managed by Unions rather than employers or outsourced to professional finance firms; there's a good history of hedge funds versus Unions on the books some of which used to stop leverage buyouts).

> And the real numbers tell the story of a society divided in two, a part that will manage to enjoy its pension and the other part that has no clue how will pay for its old age.

Even when federally mandated pensions existed there was always an interesting line between pension-earning work and the rest. It's not an entirely new worry, it's just continuing to get a lot worse.

Even worse is how much the breakdown of the earned pension system to the "privatized" 401k system is creating a weird muddy ground in between the extremes of people that sort of have retirement investments, but no longer have collective bargaining power, often have more middlemen eating their share of the pie, and everything is much more of a gamble.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been shocked to the extent politicians haven’t focused on the lost tax revenue from the gig economy. I’m certain it’s caused a drop in tax revenue from what would normally constitute middle class tax payers.

What lost tax revenue do you mean? Self-employed/temp/gig workers still pay the same taxes as full time employees.

Not necessarily. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/self-employment-taxes/t...

See 20% deduction on self employment income.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#106
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the pro gun people I know, self included, have more than that. There are more guns than people in America, but not nearly everyone is a gun owner.

iirc the number of guns in America is almost exactly equal to the population but the distribution is skewed a lot. About 2/3rds of Americans don't own a gun. The ones who do on average own 3, with a lot of them having 1 and a few of them having dozens.

You're recalling a very old guess; an analysis since then https://web.archive.org/web/20190121202815/http://weaponsman... puts the number anywhere from 412 to 660 million.

The old estimates are bad, for example, 275 million new in to the market guns were counted by a system the BATFE introduced in 1999 for high volume manufacturers, importers and wholesalers, a total of 66 FFLs, that no academic had previously used in an estimate.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#107
post #67
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that money is money, but I feel like we desperately need to make conflict of interests prosecutable, so we can kill the self-serving mess that are LBOs. In what universe is "I borrow a bunch of money, buy a company, then force the company to basically borrow money from me" a value-creating operation? Cuz it sure isn't this one.

The alternative to leveraged buyouts is probably not a healthy company, it's more likely a slowly dieing company that goes out with a whimper, not a bang. Is one way better than the other?

Those aren't the only possibilities. LBOs don't necessarily strip assets. There are already rules that claw back asset stripping prior to a bankruptcy. Perhaps they need to be strengthened.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#108
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been gainfully employed in corporate IT since I was 19 - and doing max contribution to my 401k every year since - I'm not "in touch" with the predicament of today's kids. Are they alright? Record employment numbers today. Wage growth up. We still have a talent shortage. Being (now) a business owner, my biggest complaint on the talent front isn't a lack of education in candidates, it's a lack of customer focus…

>employed in corporate IT since I was 19 unlikely you'll ever collect from that 401k friend!

>unlikely you'll ever collect from that 401k friend!

Like WillPostForFood, I'm baffled about where you're even getting this idea.

The 401k is their money. Right now they could withdraw all the money. If their employer goes bankrupt, the 401k balance didn't change at all. The only part that could potentially go away would be unvested company contributions (I'm not sure on this - it's all I can think of though).

If we were talking about a pension, Social Security, or a 457b deferred compensation plan - I get it. There's uncertainty. Pensions get underfunded routinely, private equity shenanigans occur etc. Social Security will likely see big changes in the next 40 years. In the case of the 457b plans, it's not your money until you leave the employer and start withdrawing money.

Please clarify your statement if you have something productive to add.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#109
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean the percentage of owners? I can count on one hand the number of people I know who own a home but don't own a firearm.

What state do you live?

South Carolina.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#110
post #98

I especially liked this bit "The pension fund for the Boston-area public water utility invests in Cerberus. The California State Teachers’ Retirement System, CalSTRS, is a Cerberus client, as is a pension fund for the Presbyterian Church as well as many university endowments, sovereign wealth funds and philanthropic foundations." Made me chuckle a bit inside, as I know a couple people who are less on the side of guns…

There are so many people that view investing like this. It's best to leave your morals and worldview to the side when investing, or letting others invest on your behalf.
Post reply on HN