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America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

nytimes.com

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Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#61
post #39

Not a mystery: Private equity firm bought them out with borrowed money, raided their resources to enrich themselves, then left Remington to rot. It is a common story now. The private equity firm makes a bunch of money and people are jobless.

PS - the owners of these company's are also complicit as they let the PE shops come in in the first place.

Hostile takeovers do happen.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#62
post #55
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a firearm enthusiast, the answer to "How many guys does one need?" is always "Just one more." It's a fun hobby that I can spend time with my kids. They also make great investments as a quality firearm holds it worth and often increases in value.

And of course, the more of them we have around, the better the chances that one of them will somehow accidentally get misused one day. Oh, sorry; I'm sure you're entirely careful and responsible, all the time, just like every other firearms buyer. So there's clearly no problem with having an ever-increasing number of them around.

And the better chances that one will be used intentionally to protect a productive and decent member of society from a violent criminal.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#64

How are these strip-shops able to resell the heavily debt-burdened companies they create? That's the part I don't get.

Buy 20 companies, execute private equity playbook. a few are zeroes, most make 1-5x over 3-5 years...

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#65
At this point, I feel most employees of a business that's up for sale should just put their foot down and say no to selling the company to any private equity firm.

The owner can say, hey I worked for this and I need to exit with a plan.

Well, the employees can say we worked for this and we need to make sure we will have our jobs in 5 - 10 years.

I am working in a company that used to be privately owned, and was sold to a PE. It happened before I joined. The ones who are still here tell me the night and day difference in how the employees are treated before and after the sale. The treatment I'm talking about is how the employees are compensated.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the issue - perhaps - of market saturation. How many guns does one need? My pro-gun friends typically seem to have 2-3 but shy away from any more than that.

> My pro-gun friends typically seem to have 2-3 From my experience, that's sort of low. I never thought my neighbors had so many guns, until I started spending time at the shooting range. A common site is a trunk packed to the gills with firearms. The "gun guys" buy them like the "sneaker guys" buy Nikes. They usually won't talk about it, unless you express interest or go shooting with them.

Can confirm, my father-in-law has more than 50.

It's actually a really neat collection, but I wince at how much it had to cost and how much use he actually gets out of them.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#67
post #33

Not a mystery: Private equity firm bought them out with borrowed money, raided their resources to enrich themselves, then left Remington to rot. It is a common story now. The private equity firm makes a bunch of money and people are jobless.

I get that money is money, but I feel like we desperately need to make conflict of interests prosecutable, so we can kill the self-serving mess that are LBOs. In what universe is "I borrow a bunch of money, buy a company, then force the company to basically borrow money from me" a value-creating operation? Cuz it sure isn't this one.

The alternative to leveraged buyouts is probably not a healthy company, it's more likely a slowly dieing company that goes out with a whimper, not a bang.

Is one way better than the other?

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#68

Not a mystery: Private equity firm bought them out with borrowed money, raided their resources to enrich themselves, then left Remington to rot. It is a common story now. The private equity firm makes a bunch of money and people are jobless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping by any other name, a scourge of business in the 80's. Today, it's less vocally lambasted and less public outrage as in the 80's, which in today's internet times, raises much thought as why that is so. I suspect that it's due to lack of media attention compared to back then.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#69
post #61
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS - the owners of these company's are also complicit as they let the PE shops come in in the first place.

Hostile takeovers do happen.

the owners have to vote for it

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#70

This is not an uncommon story for firearm manufacturers unfortunately. Tooling costs are high, sales hard to predict, and designs can fail easily. Ian McCollum of Forgotten Weapons has done a lot of videos on this topic.

There's also the issue - perhaps - of market saturation. How many guns does one need? My pro-gun friends typically seem to have 2-3 but shy away from any more than that.

I'm a relatively new gun owner. I have 2 firearms, and by design I won't have any more for a very long time. I would have just the rifle, but it's often awkward or impossible to take classes and compete without a pistol. My entire system runs on the same caliber, and all of the magazines are interchangeable.

It used to be that almost every American household had someone who was a competent shooter, an good cook, a competent musician, a decent craftsperson or repair person of some kind. Times have changed.

From what I have seen, only having 1 gun is more common in the African American community and in some parts of rural America.

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