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JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

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Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#161

Post by arcticbull »

caseysoftware wrote: post #157
arcticbull wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not a criminal matter, it's a civil matter. It's illegal in the same way as parking somewhere you're not supposed to. Not everything that's illegal is a crime . "It is generally accurate that the simple act of being in the United States illegally is not, by itself, a crime. Rather, it’s a civil violation that puts the individual at risk for deportation, but not for criminal prosecution." [1] This isn't alway…

Ok, point withdrawn. Overstaying a visa is not a criminal offense. That's a new one for me. Thanks. I think your "who is hurt" approach is weak though. If a country can't enforce its own laws - or worse selectively enforces them - no one is obviously "hurt" but it erodes trust in the systems and process itself. It leaves everything up to the judgement of the people on the ground and damages the concept of equality un…

Yeah, I agree with you about law enforcement, particularly selective law enforcement. It is indeed a dangerous game to play, and while definitely a left-leaning individual I just can't get behind the whole "abolish ICE" thing. I do think that immigration laws in the US are absurdly strict and I have a hard time buying the "America's Full" argument. That said, while laws exist on the books they should be enforced.

I was suggesting one has a clear victim and the other doesn't so it may not be directly comparable. The "who's hurt" question was something I'm curious the consensus answer to rather than an excuse for not enforcing the law.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#162

Post by things »

jpalomaki wrote: post #150
codedokode wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if passport photo is good enough for this. The mimimum requirement for face recognition is about 50 pixels between the eyes, and for reliable recognition it probably should be more. So the photo must come from somewhere else. For example, it could be taken when she passed the gates previous time.

In Europe there’s automated passport control gates with face recognition in several airports. These are based on the photo stored on passport. Not sure how automatic these are - would be of course possible to have a human there looking at the photos. According to quick search there’s no specific resolution requirement for the image in biometric passport, but size should be min 12kB to have recognizable image. https:/…

There is a human looking at the photos. When you take the Eurostar you can see them sitting in a booth after the gates. If you look into the booth as you pass, you'll see a grid of photos on screen. I'm assuming they're overseeing it all rather than checking everything manually.

I noticed that these gates were quite slow ID'ing me the first couple of times I went through them but now I hardly have the time to see my face flash on the screen before the gates open. Maybe there's a human check on initial passes. Either that or their code has gotten way better or they store data that helps matching after a few uses.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#163

Post by jackweirdy »

URSpider94 wrote: post #148
gumby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

Its worth pointing out that the US is literally the only country in the world that I have visited, in my recollection, that does not have passport control upon exiting the country.

The UK does not check passports outbound at airports either

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#164

Post by 6nf »

kevingadd wrote: post #102
dv_dt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm predicting perfectly innocent people who happen to have some algorithmic resemblance to some murderers and terrorists to be detained.

They already do this based on names. A former coworker shared his name with his grandfather, and both of them matched the name of a man on the terror watchlist. Naturally, the man was much younger than both of them and of a different nationality, but that didn't stop his grandfather (~50 years older!) from getting stopped and questioned every time he flew.

I was wondering about this. From what I hear it's basically impossible to get a name removed from this watchlist, so short of actually legally changing your name there's basically nothing you can do!?

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#165

Post by 6nf »

jacklewis wrote: post #43

Here in Australia we have automated passport control gates that scan a chip in our passport then takes a photo of our face (and I assume does some matching with our passport photo) before allowing reentry. It's quite quick and very convenient. Although I'm not aware of any airlines being able to use the system for boarding.

This new system does not require you to present your passport or ticket. It just takes a photo.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#166

Post by mrighele »

jacobolus wrote: post #115
unreal37 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries of the world have maximum visit lengths as part of a visitor visa. And those maximum visit lengths are counted on an annual basis. So you can only visit the US 179 days out of 365. So they need to know when you came in and when you left. It's not good enough to just leave and not tell anyone.

They don’t “need to know” for reasons which are of significant practical benefit to citizens/residents. But institutions like governments only “see” via data collection, and in general are happy to collect whatever is technically and socially feasible, and people involved in setting up databases seldom stop to think about the risks or trade-offs involved in collecting various types of data, or whether that data is me…

> They don’t “need to know” for reasons which are of significant practical benefit to citizens/residents.

Staying for more than six months is usually one of the main measures to determine if one is resident and should pay taxes in the country, so there is at least a very good reason (although I don't know how much this applies to the USA specifically).

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#167

Post by warp_factor »

URSpider94 wrote: post #148
gumby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

Its worth pointing out that the US is literally the only country in the world that I have visited, in my recollection, that does not have passport control upon exiting the country.

you would have passport control if you exited the country through some other non conventional ways.

The airlines are giving out all the information, that's why there is no need to do an exit passport control.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#168

Post by 6nf »

daurnimator wrote: post #132
jacklewis wrote: post #43

Here in Australia we have automated passport control gates that scan a chip in our passport then takes a photo of our face (and I assume does some matching with our passport photo) before allowing reentry. It's quite quick and very convenient. Although I'm not aware of any airlines being able to use the system for boarding.

Note that is only for international travel. In Australia, you don't need an ID for a domestic flight; and non-flyers are permitted to walk to the gate, no boarding pass is required to go through security.

There's some talk about changing this but I hope they don't. It's really convenient to just walk on and fly - you can do Sydney to Melbourne door to door in 2 hours.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#169

Post by jacobolus »

mrighele wrote: post #166
jacobolus wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t “need to know” for reasons which are of significant practical benefit to citizens/residents. But institutions like governments only “see” via data collection, and in general are happy to collect whatever is technically and socially feasible, and people involved in setting up databases seldom stop to think about the risks or trade-offs involved in collecting various types of data, or whether that data is me…

> They don’t “need to know” for reasons which are of significant practical benefit to citizens/residents. Staying for more than six months is usually one of the main measures to determine if one is resident and should pay taxes in the country, so there is at least a very good reason (although I don't know how much this applies to the USA specifically).

Anyone who earns income working in the USA has to pay US income and payroll taxes.
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