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JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

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Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#151

Post by ghaff »

asdff wrote: post #78
gumby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct; sad that most people don't know this.

Why should they? The only time it would be relevant is if you forgot your ID, and if you want to rent a car or hotel at your destination that might be a problem there as well. Knowing the TSA, I bet this adds at least an hour to the trip as you are begrudgingly walked to some back room and sit there for 20 minutes while someone is pulling up your file.

My one experience with losing an ID was that there was no real issue although it took 15 minutes or so to do a more thorough check. It was very professional. The Travelodge at the other end was a bigger deal though I was eventually able to check in there.

ADDED: It appears that as of Oct 1 2020, this sort of exception will no longer be possible.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#152

Post by Lost_BiomedE »

tehjoker wrote: post #145

This essentially gives the government much tighter control of a process that, while decent, has some loose ends in it. For instance, document forging is something that is less effective than it used to be given digital chips and facial recognition. It is of course legitimate for a democracy to check things like which plants are coming across the border and to deny access or apprehend war criminals and the like. Howev…

We have yet to see another Stalin with all this new tech. Something I hope we never see. I wish Gulag Archipelago was history 101 at university.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#153

Post by arcticbull »

caseysoftware wrote: post #147
arcticbull wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the robbers argument isn't directly applicable because mere physical presence without committing a crime doesn't hurt anyone -- does it? I think Congress for all its flaws agrees, as simply being present and out of status in the US isn't a criminal matter, it's civil, and congress has repeatedly, and even recently, refused to change that classification. You punish a robber ostensibly to stop them from robbing…

Their "mere physical presence" after their visa has expired is the crime. There is nothing unique about the US in that regard. Most countries have a limit on how long you can visit.

No, it's not a criminal matter, it's a civil matter. It's illegal in the same way as parking somewhere you're not supposed to. Not everything that's illegal is a crime. "It is generally accurate that the simple act of being in the United States illegally is not, by itself, a crime. Rather, it’s a civil violation that puts the individual at risk for deportation, but not for criminal prosecution." [1]

This isn't always a good thing, of course, as there's less due process involved in handling such situations. Unlawful entry is a misdemeanor, lying to a border guard is a crime, and unlawful re-entry after deportation can be, also.

[1] https://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2017/mar/15/fl...

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#154

Post by antpls »

rayiner wrote: post #72
gumby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

Borders are different. There is a right to free movement within a country. Not so across borders.

There is a right to free movement in the country because it would be impractical to check movements of people at this level of granularity.

With this development of technology, it becomes possible to even check who is crossing your neighborhood, and you may lose your freedom inside your own country, if a government decided to go in that direction

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#155

Post by raspie »

Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #152
tehjoker wrote: post #145

This essentially gives the government much tighter control of a process that, while decent, has some loose ends in it. For instance, document forging is something that is less effective than it used to be given digital chips and facial recognition. It is of course legitimate for a democracy to check things like which plants are coming across the border and to deny access or apprehend war criminals and the like. Howev…

We have yet to see another Stalin with all this new tech. Something I hope we never see. I wish Gulag Archipelago was history 101 at university.

New Stalin style dictatorships are unlikely to arise in developed countries. A gradual descend into modern-Russia style governance is much more likely.

We have learned a lot about building stable power structures in the last 50 years. You don't need to have a death grip on everything in the country. A much softer touch is the technique of choice of modern oppressive regimes.

Why disallow other parties when you can just make sure the right party always wins?

Why get rid of capitalism if you can just pick the winners?

Why censor information when you can drown the airwaves in fake news?

Why purge dissidents if they have no power to change things?

Why control what people do when you can control what people want to do?

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#156

Post by shard972 »

basicplus2 wrote: post #112
lucisferre wrote: post #49

What is tiring me out about all this "technology improvement" in airport check-in is how confusing it is and how often it changes. There is no one clear process anymore. Last week I went to board a flight and checked in using the phone app. At the airport I needed to get a baggage ticket so I used the machine there for that, but it basically had me go through the whole check-in all over again. On top of that the firs…

Its probably more about info on how they will load the aircraft ahead of time to ensure those calcs are done in time

At the airports in Australia at least the machines weigh the bags and everything so I don't see why that means you still need a human to do it again for you.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#157

Post by caseysoftware »

arcticbull wrote: post #153
caseysoftware wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their "mere physical presence" after their visa has expired is the crime. There is nothing unique about the US in that regard. Most countries have a limit on how long you can visit.

No, it's not a criminal matter, it's a civil matter. It's illegal in the same way as parking somewhere you're not supposed to. Not everything that's illegal is a crime . "It is generally accurate that the simple act of being in the United States illegally is not, by itself, a crime. Rather, it’s a civil violation that puts the individual at risk for deportation, but not for criminal prosecution." [1] This isn't alway…

Ok, point withdrawn. Overstaying a visa is not a criminal offense. That's a new one for me. Thanks.

I think your "who is hurt" approach is weak though.

If a country can't enforce its own laws - or worse selectively enforces them - no one is obviously "hurt" but it erodes trust in the systems and process itself. It leaves everything up to the judgement of the people on the ground and damages the concept of equality under the law. It's a dangerous game to play.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#158

Post by gumby »

rayiner wrote: post #72
gumby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

Borders are different. There is a right to free movement within a country. Not so across borders.

There are numerous countries without unlimited right of free movement. China, Burma, and (to a much lesser extent) India come to mind.

Also de facto limitations in highly violent places like Syria, parts of Iraq, Somalia et al, but I assume you were referring to a de jure right

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#159

Post by skrebbel »

Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #152
tehjoker wrote: post #145

This essentially gives the government much tighter control of a process that, while decent, has some loose ends in it. For instance, document forging is something that is less effective than it used to be given digital chips and facial recognition. It is of course legitimate for a democracy to check things like which plants are coming across the border and to deny access or apprehend war criminals and the like. Howev…

We have yet to see another Stalin with all this new tech. Something I hope we never see. I wish Gulag Archipelago was history 101 at university.

Xi Jinping is trying pretty hard.
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