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JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

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Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#51

Post by chatmasta »

gumby wrote: post #46
chatmasta wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that useful to identify someone who has overstayed their visa when they are leaving the country ? Sure, you then know not to let them in next time. But it seems like a lot of effort when there are so many people overstaying their visa and not leaving out of the airports. That said, even as a libertarian, privacy-conscious person, I'm not sure I have a problem with exit controls like this. It's important…

> It's important to know who is crossing the border, in both directions. Why? And if there exists an important reason to know that someone is exiting the country does that same criterion not also apply to exiting a state or city or neighborhood? I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely unable to come up with a reason it's important to track who leaves almost any place, except in highly unusual cases (e.g. "OK guys, c…

So that next time chatmasta comes back, you know when he left. Otherwise how do you know how long he stayed in the country, and therefore how many days he should be allowed on this next visit? Currently, I assume the countries without exit controls have access to the entry databases of the destination countries, so they forego exit controls as redundant.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#52

Post by craftinator »

kruegel wrote: post #38
ProAm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to what the airline said, the airline doesn't have the facial recognition data I absolutely do not believe the tweets from a company PR representative as to how their technology actually works.

Regardless of whether this PR person knows anything or not, I think the much more likely scenario is that they are sending facial recognition requests to a CBP API vs. building their own facial recognition database with 100s of millions of identities out of thin air.

But they have your photo after they take it, and the CBP verifies for them who you are. From this information transfer, the airline can replicate the CBP database entry for each person that it takes a picture of... In the long run, they can build a facial recognition database of everyone who flies. Am I wrong about this?

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#53

Post by [deleted] »

ssss11 wrote: post #31
crazygringo wrote: post #9

Most relevant details, from the last link [1]: > It took her photo, comparing her picture to a preloaded photo databased of all the passengers with tickets on this flight, and then she got a check mark, indicating she was cleared to board. The whole process took about five to six seconds. > The Aruba experiment is expected to last somewhere between 45 and 90 days. > "We're basically capturing that picture at the boar…

>It's also always been pretty normal to have your photo taken by countries when passing through passport control. No not always, only recently. > I don't really see what the problem would be here? You’re kidding right? There’s multiple privacy problems. Sounds like you either benefit from mass surveillance or have been conditioned to it.

[deleted]

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#54

Post by staticautomatic »

Waterluvian wrote: post #35
ssss11 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's also always been pretty normal to have your photo taken by countries when passing through passport control. No not always, only recently. > I don't really see what the problem would be here? You’re kidding right? There’s multiple privacy problems. Sounds like you either benefit from mass surveillance or have been conditioned to it.

In my opinion it's a really bad idea to foster an attitude of, "if you're not with us then you're against us." Some people don't mind these kinds of surveillance. You might staunchly disagree but you have to accept that it's a valid position.

I think I agree with you but I can't help asking "valid in what sense?"

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#55

Post by lapinot »

shkkmo wrote: post #45
mentat wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it symmetric, use it to watch the watchers, then we might be talking about something socially viable. Without that, it's about control.

There is a fundamental trade-off between transparency and privacy, but also a very real risk that we will end up with neither.

Privacy is not hiding, it's about controlling visibility. Most of the data we wish would be treated differently are not strictly private, we just don't assume they would be easily accessible (specifically by a private company). We are currently transparent to big actors but cannot see through the window ourselves.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#56

Post by oh_sigh »

craftinator wrote: post #52
kruegel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether this PR person knows anything or not, I think the much more likely scenario is that they are sending facial recognition requests to a CBP API vs. building their own facial recognition database with 100s of millions of identities out of thin air.

But they have your photo after they take it, and the CBP verifies for them who you are. From this information transfer, the airline can replicate the CBP database entry for each person that it takes a picture of... In the long run, they can build a facial recognition database of everyone who flies. Am I wrong about this?

No, but whether they actually are or not is another question.

They could also build the same database 10 years ago by taking your picture as you scanned your boarding pass.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#57

Post by morpheuskafka »

dillonmckay wrote: post #33
village-idiot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, you need photo ID to fly and pass customs.

You don’t need photo ID to fly. TSA will ask you questions from your credit report and allow you to board. *US citizens flying within the states.

You are required by regulation to have it. There is, as you describe, a convenience procedure intended to help people who forget their ID. You could still be turned away if you do this frequently or they otherwise have reason to doubt the legitimacy of it. And they don't have time for everyone in line to do it--if they did, this exception would go away completely.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#58

Post by Retric »

sushisource wrote: post #32
ssss11 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's also always been pretty normal to have your photo taken by countries when passing through passport control. No not always, only recently. > I don't really see what the problem would be here? You’re kidding right? There’s multiple privacy problems. Sounds like you either benefit from mass surveillance or have been conditioned to it.

I think being conditioned to it is inevitable to some degree. I think the only reasonable choice is to focus on punishment for misuse, not prevention. This reeks to me of another situation where we're trying to put the cat back in the bag, and that has basically never worked (except maybe nuclear disarmament, and even then... barely, and largely because the capital costs are so extreme). Surveillance tech is cheap an…

Effective surveillance is extremely expensive. But, it’s an easy way for contractors and suppliers to make money so many industries lobby for it.

For example road side license plate readers sound cheap, but unless a cop is next to it it’s really hard to catch the car that tripped one.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#59

Post by dv_dt »

apcragg wrote: post #21

Privacy concerns aside, I can't wait to read the "Facial Recognition let me on the wrong flight when I got in the wrong line by accident" articles that are going to come out of this. Unless these systems have some fantastic (1e-6) P_{false alarm} rate or better, people are going to be mistaken for other people and let on the wrong flight sooner or later.

I'm predicting perfectly innocent people who happen to have some algorithmic resemblance to some murderers and terrorists to be detained.

Re: JetBlue explains to a passenger how it got a photo of her face

#60

Post by yalogin »

I can bet that they have a copy of all photos on their servers. No company will be foolish enough to build a business/service that relies on another entity, much so a government organization that is not known for building highly scalable services. This is a crucial part of their process and any delays will impact their bottom line. So they have all faces with them and so does every other company. Also, just the face is not enough, they need all the other identifying info associated with it. So they got everything.

Also, the government organization is not foolish enough to build such a service they get to be blamed for. They gave/sold that data away.

Just the face is of no use, the identifying information that goes along with it is also given. So at this point any company in the US can just query your entire info from your photo. Privacy is dead and it is provided as a service by the government. Wonderful.

Question is can anyone get this data?

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