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Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

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Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#171

Post by jefftk »

dvlsg wrote: post #147
puzzle wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they're the same service behind the scenes. Would you store the same music twice, if you had to run both?

They don't seem to be. At least not in terms of content. YouTube music has songs that Google play doesn't, and vice versa. The YouTube music experience is kind of odd. It seems that you can only listen to full albums if someone has uploaded them to YouTube as separate songs. Which makes sense, but it means that currently a lot of the music I listen to is nowhere to be found on YouTube music.

They're in the process of being merged: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/23/17386752/youtube-music-up...

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#172

Post by dmitriid »

joshuamorton wrote: post #167
dmitriid wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should all hold companies accountable and not celebrate every “modicum of privacy”. Look at what companies do, not what they say they do. Yay, you can delete all your data... says the company which puts hidden microphones in consumer products, leaks copious amounts of user data across unrelated services, releases a browser which automatically logs you in to google services, lifted its ban on personally identifiabl…

So are you claiming that you can't actually delete your data? Or are you saying that letting you delete your data isn't a thing? Because "letting you delete your data" seems to be a thing the company is doing. Which you say we should look at.

No one can say for certain how, and when they delete the data. Even the person from the privacy team said as much.

Moreover, this is a very, very, very small "modicum of privacy". A very small number of users will use that. It makes the company look good, for sure [1], but it will in no way, shape, or form affect what they are already doing, and will continue doing.

Should we celebrate them for being so gracious as to let the users delete their own data? Well, it's literally the least they should do anyway (once again, [1]).

[1] I wonder how much of this is related to GDPR, which requires Google to provide users with means to delete their data.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#173

Post by jefftk »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #21
aiiane wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you choose to delete it, it will be deleted. (It takes nontrivial amounts of time to delete it across distributed service architecture but the deletions do get propagated.)

I simply do not believe this. Unless they're audited by a source that can be trusted and have the findings made public, I will not believe it either.

A subpoena for something someone deleted would be a good way to find out. My prediction is that for something deleted, say, six months ago, the subpoena would come back empty.

(Disclosure: I work for Google, though not on anything like this. Speaking only for myself, not the company.)

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#174

Post by Simon_says »

andrepd wrote: post #81
the_duke wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use uMatrix, but the amount of sites where you need to allow Google domains and cookies for reCaptcha to work is depressing.

And then you will be "punished" for being off the grid, and the images will take 8 seconds to fade out and fade in...

I've experienced this too. Are you saying Google's algorithms know (or at least strongly suspect) I'm human but throttle me anyways because I've taken steps to protect my privacy? Out of spite?

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#175

Post by dmitriid »

qntty wrote: post #160
dmitriid wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your team is doing a shitty job, to be completely honest. This comment and all the comments beliw it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168

People will be more likely to consider your criticism if you are specific. Can you recommend an incremental improvement that aiiane could push for?

Literally the very first sentence in the comment I linked:

"they might do better to remove the requirement to have the Web/Location/App history enabled for apparently unrelated features."

And then that comment, and the first comment below it, describe the ways this can be improved.

And then comment upon comment upon comment:

- I cant store my home location in Google Maps without turning on Web & App activity history. Why?

- I cant share my current location (not historic, just my latest location - they only need to store one) with my partner unless I turn on Web and Location history. Why?

- Google will still let you store your home address and they'll display it on the map, but if you have Location History turned off they'll refuse to list it as an autocomplete option when you search for addresses or directions. Why?

- Google Home and Android Auto require all of these settings to be enabled. Why?

- Can't subscribe to podcasts if web activity is disabled. Why?

All the above are severe breaches of privacy, requiring the user to enable data collection by Google for features that have nothing to do with this data.

But yay, hurray, they will graciously let us delete our data.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#176

Post by jefftk »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #137
aiiane wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you choose to delete it, it will be deleted. (It takes nontrivial amounts of time to delete it across distributed service architecture but the deletions do get propagated.)

What about old backups (e.g. tape archives, which I think I've read Google uses), how do those get deleted? Do you store and encrypt the data with a user-specific key and then delete that key upon receiving a deletion request? Perhaps user data is never stored as part of tape backups? Perhaps you have a system which (very slowly) is able to load the appropriate tapes and purge the user's data?

The standard way to delete things from cold storage is to encrypt each piece with keys that you can more easily to delete.

You can also, of course, read in the data, rewrite it with the deleted portion removed, and write it out again.

(Disclosure: I work at Google, though I don't know anything about how Google handles this)

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#177

Post by jefftk »

bduerst wrote: post #170
user17843 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is basically the GDPR rules, but I would need to look into the details more.

You're right - Article 3 of GDPR defines the scope as applying to any user residing in the EU. If the users are not logged in then you don't know where they reside (IP address != residence), meaning any international company that operates in the EU needs to err on the side of caution for non-logged in users everywhere.

IP address geolocation is the normal way people determine if GDPR applies.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#178

Post by rifung »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #21
aiiane wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you choose to delete it, it will be deleted. (It takes nontrivial amounts of time to delete it across distributed service architecture but the deletions do get propagated.)

I simply do not believe this. Unless they're audited by a source that can be trusted and have the findings made public, I will not believe it either.

I work for Google, opinions are my own.

I understand your skepticism but at least in this case, I think your incentives are aligned with Google's. If we don't delete it (within ~30 days I think?) then I'm pretty sure we'd be in violation of GDPR.

Is that to say it's definitely deleted? I can't say that for sure since there bugs are always possible but at least I'm pretty confident the intention is to delete it.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#179

Post by icebraining »

devereaux wrote: post #166
mehrdadn wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dare say that I don't expect automatic deletion of emails from your inbox is not a feature many users are clamoring for, whether they have privacy concerns or not. Hence I don't think the lack of it is for monetization puposes or the lack.

Users should clamor for a feature that automatically delete emails with subject= password after say a week. In theory the links are only valid for a few hours. In practice I don't trust that. Even then, it's not about clamoring, but just having a way to create rules. You just can't do that easily in gmail.

Why not just delete the mail right after clicking the link?

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#180

Post by craftyguy »

user17843 wrote: post #86
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source, or any evidence that they don't? Google doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. This is literally their business model.

I think this is basically the GDPR rules, but I would need to look into the details more.

GPDR is not recognized in all countries, and most notably not in the country google calls 'home'.
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