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Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

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Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#221

Post by criddell »

jddj wrote: post #215
scarface74 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much has Android “winning” help Google? From the Oracle trial, it came out that Android has only made Google $21 billion in profit during its entire existence and the largest market for “Android”, China, doesn’t make Google one dime.

I'm suspicious of that figure as you've presented it, but I'm not all that familiar with the trial either. If it weren't for Android, how many fewer people would be using Chrome as their daily mobile browser? How can we quantify the data slurped up and clicks generated on google.com by those added chrome instances? What about YouTube impressions? How many fewer people would be using Google maps daily? How much less l…

> Have these things plus the app store really only generated 21 billion?

Considering why the number was revealed, Google had every incentive in the world to understate as much as they could get away with. Plus, how is $21 billion profit not a great thing for them? The revenue number was north of $30 billion.

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#222

Post by scarface74 »

leesec wrote: post #210
scarface74 wrote: post #148

Microsoft’s “performance” wasn’t bad by any objective metric during the Ballmer era. If the stock market were rational, MS stock would have been doing a lot better under Balmer than it did. But then again, if the stock market were rational, Lyft would have never been able to go public and Tesla would basically be worthless.

Rational according to you I guess. The market has it's own rationality.

So did the real estate market around 2007....

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#223

Post by TheIronYuppie »

AJ007 wrote: post #160
TheIronYuppie wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't do any training on your data. Telemetry is largely for feature use tracking (eg we should really do better around this component, everyone is using it). There is absolutely no ads overlap at all. Literally none. Disclosure: I work at Azure but not on VS Code

What people want to hear is there is none, and there never will be. Even that isn’t enough, but at least there is some legal recourse.

Can you say more? Like there is none what?

If there are any changes to this doc - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/compliance/gd... - you would be able to check that immediately, and we would never change our data collection policy without changing that document... It's the law!

Disclosure: I work at Azure on machine learning but not VS Code

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#224

Post by CodeMage »

spectramax wrote: post #140
bovermyer wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm both wary of and hopeful about Microsoft and Google. "Trust but verify" and all that.

I’ve always found this phrase an oxymoron.

What it means is "Trust the intentions, but verify the results."

It's just that "trust, but verify" is shorter and more memorable.

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#225

Post by eitland »

ksec wrote: post #208
calvinbhai wrote: post #93

Having read Nadella's book Hit Refresh as soon as it went on sale, Microsoft performance since then doesn't look surprising at all. Having listed what's wrong (with their product focus, company culture etc), and where they plan to head, its' almost like the book informs the reader where puck is going to be (from Satya's POV). It's funny that 15 years back I was so anti MS and pro Google and now I think it's the other…

I am Pro Apple, but that is only because for most of the time they have stick to their words. That was Steve's Apple then, Tim Cook doesn't seems to be quite as trust worthy at least according to Qualcomm's case. I was Anti MS, I guess I am neutral on them now. But I never trusted Google in the first place, and found it odd every one jumps to Google's hype. From Gmail to Google Docs. And now I found it funny they are…

Upvoted.

As for why some of us defended Google there was a long time where they - IMO - were very nice.

Big contributors to a number of good causes.

Fired sysadmin who looked into data of someone he knew, even of he had a good reason, because trust came first.

Old AdWords/AdSense with somewhat relevant text only ads wasn't too shady IMO.

... at a time when Microsoft had a CEO that said Open Source was like cancer. Etc.

Looking back my guess is it went wrong somewhere around the doubleclick acquisition.

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#226

Post by levesque »

amelius wrote: post #173
levesque wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't trust, verify.

And how do you do that? E.g. how do you verify that Google deletes your data when you tell it to?

No idea, was just messing around. If one really were to do this, the best way would probably be to trick them into employing you, and then verify from the inside (and even then, good luck!). I do believe it's going to be an issue in the future, if it isn't already one. Even as a government, how do you really make sure that company X erases the data?

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#227

Post by mandeepj »

calvinbhai wrote: post #93

Having read Nadella's book Hit Refresh as soon as it went on sale, Microsoft performance since then doesn't look surprising at all. Having listed what's wrong (with their product focus, company culture etc), and where they plan to head, its' almost like the book informs the reader where puck is going to be (from Satya's POV). It's funny that 15 years back I was so anti MS and pro Google and now I think it's the other…

> the book informs the reader where puck is going to be (from Satya's POV)

Satya became CEO during the beginning of 2014. And, the book was published on September 26, 2017. So, you read it when the puck was in transit.

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#228

Post by scarface74 »

jddj wrote: post #215
scarface74 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much has Android “winning” help Google? From the Oracle trial, it came out that Android has only made Google $21 billion in profit during its entire existence and the largest market for “Android”, China, doesn’t make Google one dime.

I'm suspicious of that figure as you've presented it, but I'm not all that familiar with the trial either. If it weren't for Android, how many fewer people would be using Chrome as their daily mobile browser? How can we quantify the data slurped up and clicks generated on google.com by those added chrome instances? What about YouTube impressions? How many fewer people would be using Google maps daily? How much less l…

I'm suspicious of that figure as you've presented it, but I'm not all that familiar with the trial either.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/21/10810834/android-generate...

If it weren't for Android, how many fewer people would be using Chrome as their daily mobile browser?

Chrome doesn’t make them any money besides Google.com being the default search engine. Pre-Chrome, Google already had an overwhelming share of the search engine market.

What about YouTube impressions?

The same with YouTube. My old Blackberry phone came with a YouTube app as did the iPhone before there was even an App Store. Would Apple have been so fast to not bundle Youtube or Google Maps if it weren’t for Android?

Have these things plus the app store really only generated 21 billion?

I would hope that Oracle’s high priced lawyers would have taken all that into account.

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#229

Post by scarface74 »

criddell wrote: post #221
jddj wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suspicious of that figure as you've presented it, but I'm not all that familiar with the trial either. If it weren't for Android, how many fewer people would be using Chrome as their daily mobile browser? How can we quantify the data slurped up and clicks generated on google.com by those added chrome instances? What about YouTube impressions? How many fewer people would be using Google maps daily? How much less l…

> Have these things plus the app store really only generated 21 billion? Considering why the number was revealed, Google had every incentive in the world to understate as much as they could get away with. Plus, how is $21 billion profit not a great thing for them? The revenue number was north of $30 billion.

Every incentive in the world to understate except maybe they didn’t think lying to a federal judge was a good idea? Can you imagine the penalties for not being truthful during discovery?

Re: Microsoft, currently the most valuable company, is having a Nadellaissance

#230

Post by scarface74 »

criddell wrote: post #213
scarface74 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much has Android “winning” help Google? From the Oracle trial, it came out that Android has only made Google $21 billion in profit during its entire existence and the largest market for “Android”, China, doesn’t make Google one dime.

Google has generated tens of billions of dollars in profit (and a lot of money for Microsoft via licensing). iOS turned Apple into a trillion dollar company. Meanwhile it's not clear if Microsoft made anything from their Windows Phone investment.

Again not according to official court records. iOS turned Apple into a trillion dollar company because of hardware sells. Selling phones haven’t been profitable for any Android manufacturer. Even Samsung’s ASP is around $270 for phones.
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