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Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

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Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#291
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate: Assuming self-driving cars are connected to each other, either directly or via the internet, if one car crashes, or even just makes a minor mistake, the knowledge of how to avoid that can be transmitted to every other car on the planet.

Seems unlikely that the knowledge of how to avoid making a mistake could be compiled without human analysis. The technology to do that autonomously doesn’t exist. It would almost require artificial general intelligence, and if we had that self driving would be trivial.

The "human analysis" could be completed within 30 seconds and beamed out to all cars in the area.

No reason Tesla can't have operatives on duty 24/7 to assist and tweak/train the fleet of cars.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#292
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely they will get a gigantic sea of trained deep learning weights that noone understands.

That really isn't going to play well with a judge or jury. I can see the poor programmer up on the stand not being able to say what it meant or how the car made its decisions.

To an untrained juror, even regular computer code is a black box whose behaviour is entirely unpredictable.

The only difference between a neural net and regular logic is that the latter has someone who claims to understand it.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#293

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

That statistic is so so so misleading... It is akin to blatantly lying.

Even if true, the miles accrued for others is over a period of 10 years (when there were less safe infra.) while tesla self drive is recent and hence not statistically significant.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#294
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So like when a manufacturer puts a label on a set of knives saying “warning, bottom edge is sharp” something like that? Except popping up on the screen as you drive every five seconds so you can read about the hazards you are seeing outside the windows? Nanny car, anyone? I think drivers are already well aware that roads contain an ever changing variety of risks, and they can see the signs of these risks with their e…

You know there's a difference between a kitchen knife and a 1 tonne metal structure travelling at 100km/h on a freeway. People are dying from Tesla failing to let their users know when and where autopilot should be used.

Oh okay then let's tell people every five seconds what to do or not do with each knob and button in every car. Or why not every two seconds? Maybe one?

Forget Tesla, we should have these warnings in all cars!

"You are entering a curve. It may be unsafe to let go of the steering wheel here especially if you don't have autopilot."

"You have encountered another patch of snow. The wheels might slip on this spot. Autopilot will handle it just fine but in case it doesn't, stay attentive and keep your hands on the wheel."

"You are starting to go downhill. Warning: brakes may be required."

"The road is curving to the left 7 degrees. At this time and date the sun's rays will be entering your windshield at an angle that may obscure your view of distant objects to your right."

"Last night's rain left some fallen wet leaves strewn on the opposite side of the roadway. Watch for oncoming cars who have lost control due to conditions."

"Your blood sugar is getting low. Please get something to eat. And you haven't called your mother in a week. Make sure you call her soon to prevent dangerous distraction from incoming calls."

These warnings are very important, people are dying in droves, there are at least 2 reported incidents, from all car companies not telling everyone about what they can see for themselves.

I mean come on, it's a 1 tonne metal structure hurtling down the freeway at 100km/h I'm telling you. People are dying and it's all down to the car companies not providing these messages, which we totally have time to read while driving, every one second.

/s

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#296
post #286
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that the court or some regulatory agency could order to automate these kind of reports and use them to shutdown autopilot or make it unavailable on some routes. It would be interesting to design the ux for this. Based on the wording it could even make them more liable if accidents happen outside of roads with known issues.

Why does it even need to be reported? Tesla should be able to detect where autopilot is regularly deactivated or does some wrong (driver takes over with sharp input on brakes or steering wheel), and use that to deactivate it prematurely.

Indeed, I meant that the car should report the manual takeovers to Tesla HQ so the information can be shared. In additional you should be able to add context to it as a human.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Waymo and Cruise and such believe autonomy Level 3 or so is utterly dangerous and have intentionally skipped it entirely.

I wonder if AP is really 2x safer as Musk claims. Highway driving is already significantly safer per mile than local roads, > The grim statistics provided by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also show that drivers on rural roads die at a rate 2.5 times higher per mile traveled than on urban highways. Urban drivers travel twice as many miles but suffer close to half the fatal accidents. [1] Could thi…

This x2.5 death rate is highly correlated to the speed the medics can arrive at the scene of the accident.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#298
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A few percent better than “humans” is quite bad Yes it should be (imho) at least an order of magnitude better than humans before we consider it OK to not pay attention. Not a few percentage points better as you say. However, to overcome media drama, it probably will need to be not just one, but more like three or four orders of magnitude safer than humans, because of the “oh look, a Tesla had an accident” effect.

Getting more than 50 percent better than humans gets hard, since frequently the accidents are the fault of the other party.

Not sure I follow. I would think the rating of how much better they are would be applied only to the non-culpable driver? But you are saying the metric should taint that driver with the fact that they didn't manage to avoid an accident caused by someone else? I sort of get it but not sure if it makes sense... can you say more?

Or maybe I'm overthinking it and you're just talking about how hard it is to get the statistics (number of accidents) down overall?

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Driver was obviously over confident on system's ability to self-drive That thing is called "auto-pilot". If its purpose is not to self drive a car, maybe it should be renamed.

It could be called assisted driving and still people will use it like auto pilot. I had an Opel company car for two years, full of tech (lane assist, auto break, sign detection etc etc etc) after a year and a half I realized how much I relied on this stuff (hint way way too much!) our brains are wired in a way to do as much as possible with as little attention as possible...

That might be the case but Tesla is still pushing for people to see it as autopilot when it obviously isn't.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#300

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

> ignored warnings to put his hands on steering

If there were any. One of the claims in the lawsuit is "failure to warn" and the preliminary report of the NTSP says "the alerts were made more than 15 minutes before the crash".

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