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Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

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Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#261

Post by afterburner »

sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

Lowering the overall odds of a crash may not be enough if the few accidents happen in circumstances that a human driver would have absolutely no trouble with.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#262

Post by mrtksn »

xeromal wrote: post #237
kvhdude wrote: post #228

English is not my first language. I am confused by the blatant use of the term "Auto Pilot". Does it not suggest more automation than is currently feasible? Why not intelligent assist? Why is tesla/musk getting a pass here?

Autopilot in an airplane is similar. It can do a bit and make the trip easier, but it's not going to dodge a rock that happens to fall from the sky. It's a pretty simple system that really just relies on instrumentation. It's not using any fancy algorithms to make bold maneuvers. I might wager than Tesla's is doing more.

Then maybe using the Autopilot or a Tesla vehicle should be subject to rigorous training and repetitive simulator sessions every 6 months to ensure that the drivers are using it correctly and are aware of its current capacity.

If it’s like an airplane, should be regulated like an airplane.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#263

Post by studentrob »

bobsil1 wrote: post #243
haditab wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment actually emphasizes why having a lidar is better. Cameras need neural networks to detect objects. Lidars on the other hand provide distance to all the surrounding objects. The neural networks processing the point cloud may not be able to detect what the object is, but because of the distance available in the point cloud data you will know there is something ahead. Fusing radar with camera does help but r…

Lidar is active (so lower res than vision) and uses slightly longer wavelengths (again, lower res). Visible light uses passive solar illumination by day, power-efficient, far more data; and is a problem you need to solve for reliable autonomy independent of lidar.

> is a problem you need to solve for reliable autonomy independent of lidar

Not for L4. A level 4 vehicle is not expected to operate under all conditions, including weather and location.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#264

Post by iabacu »

linsomniac wrote: post #167
saagarjha wrote: post #19

The problem with Tesla's "Autopilot" is that it's marketed heavily as just that: autopilot. It's good enough to work that way 99% of the time, too, which is a recipe for disaster: things that work 99% of the time but have the potential to fail catastrophically often get glossed over by humans because it's hard to keep paying attention to something that rarely fails.

That's all very true, but one interesting thing is that the driver in this case knew that at this location the autopilot was 100% likely to fail. I believe I read he had even reported it several times to Tesla Service and his family. The lane markers in this area, based on video I watched of it years ago, are pretty bad, IIRC. Like, a human could have problems following the markers bad. As evidence to support this I'…

The problem is:

- Autopilot doesn’t work in that area. Driver reports it to Tesla.

- Tesla fixes the issue in a software update.

- Driver sees the improvement, and happily relies on autopilot.

- After a while, a new software update introduces a regression.

- Driver doesn’t find out about the regression until it’s too late (and is not around to testify about it anymore).

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#265

Post by soulofmischief »

GavinMcG wrote: post #164
soulofmischief wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand the difference between going in a straight line and going at a consistent speed? Cruise control only enables the latter.

Given that the answer to your "question" is obviously going to be yes, why did you choose that tone? Do you think there's a virtue to being dismissive and rude? Does it accomplish some worthwhile goal?

You're probably right. I wasn't trying to be dismissive, I just naturally matched OP's energy without giving it much thought. But with a little forethought I could have presented my argument with a more neutral tone.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#266

Post by studentrob »

areoform wrote: post #234
shaklee3 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did that Tesla that smashed into the side of a semi truck bet correctly? https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2016/07/01/understa...

‘Did that Tesla that smashed into the side of a semi truck bet correctly?’ That’s needlessly antagonistic and not cool.

Antagonistic to whom?

Tesla is using the public as guinea pigs. They can defend themselves with data. Customers/investors should ask them to share more than they do, which is a mere few sentences [1] [2].

[1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqvatzjHGyk&t=47m17s

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#267

Post by toxictroller »

marmshallow wrote: post #227
lwansbrough wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telsa's bet, and I think it's a really fair one, is that if humans only need two eyes to navigate as well as we do, a car with >2 eyes could eventually be as good or better than humans. On the other hand, humans do not have lidar systems in their head, and so lidar is the real unproven technology. It's also clear that lidar is especially lacking in situations which require seeing longer distances (like say, driving!)…

Sure, humans can drive with two eyes and a brain. But do Tesla's cameras have the amazing abilities of the human eye, and do his "FSD" chips have the power of the human brain? We'll find out in a few years...

Whilst you are driving you can think, talk notice non driving related thinks around, (an attractive person). So the part if the brain driving is not equal to the while brain.

The Tesla chip is solely focused on driving

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#268

Post by threeseed »

goshx wrote: post #82
patejam wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're okay training an incomplete self driving machine learning model on the general population?

I actually help it every day during my commute. They are not stupid and this isn’t so unsafe as people who have no actual experience with it claim to be.

People have died. So it seems pretty unsafe to me.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#269

Post by jankotek »

sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

> Driver was obviously over confident on system's ability to self-drive

That thing is called "auto-pilot". If its purpose is not to self drive a car, maybe it should be renamed.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#270

Post by studentrob »

ovao wrote: post #232
HeavenBanned wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Tesla's insistence that LIDAR is useless has a part in this case? To me it's telling that everyone in the ASD game _except_ Tesla is using LIDAR.

Has Tesla actually asserted that LIDAR is “useless”? I know Musk has argued that LIDAR is not necessary, but “not necessary” and “useless” are very different things.

Let's ask Elon - https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE?t=6081

"Anyone who relies on LiDAR is doomed. Doomed. It's like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices. One is bad, and now you want to put in a whole bunch of them. That's ridiculous."

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