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This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

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Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#111
post #48

I’m reminded of this big red sign I saw in a men’s room, just above a big red button: “ATTENTION DO NOT PUSH RED BUTTON UNLESS IT IS AN EMERGENCY” It took every ounce of my will power not to push the damn button. https://i.imgur.com/xnfVpOh.jpg

"I pressed it because a number 2 was imminent."

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#112
post #7

I went looking for this page to confirm the exact quote for a story I'm writing. The original link on HN where I found it was dead, so I had to go to the wayback machine. Hopefully no one has to do that again... Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11851871

Couldn't you have used https://urbigenous.net/library/WIPP/ or https://prod-ng.sandia.gov/techlib-noauth/access-control.cgi... which turn up if you google any of it?

I was really trying to find the exact thing I had seen before. I think the "motherf_cking webpage" aesthetic adds to the effect. Also, the PDF is a bear to search for the juicy parts, and I actually don't remember seeing that first link.

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#113
post #82
post #5

I always imagined a concept such that instead of trying to deter people from entering was designed to convey that it was trying to keep something dangerous from escaping. Someone trying to keep you out of an ancient tomb? Clearly there are valuables in there. An ancient tomb that's locked from the outside? That's creepy.

Isn’t that exactly what an psychopath/despot/arch-villain would want? To unleash destruction on the world... and be the one to find, conquer and control it. I think perhaps the Finland approach of complete obscurity may be better.

Yeah but if they know what's in there they're going to want it regardless. I thought the purpose of these messages is to deter people who might not realize the danger of what's inside and accidentally poison themselves.

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#114
post #5

I always imagined a concept such that instead of trying to deter people from entering was designed to convey that it was trying to keep something dangerous from escaping. Someone trying to keep you out of an ancient tomb? Clearly there are valuables in there. An ancient tomb that's locked from the outside? That's creepy.

IIRC the Egyptian tombs / pyramids all had warnings similar to "trespassers will be cursed"; didn't stop the tomb robberies, and didn't stop Tutankhamun's sealed tomb from being unsealed and opened. The parallels to this are pretty clear; supposedly, there was a mold in there that ended up killing a few of the archeologists. Re: the article, and I'm sure I've mentioned this in the previous discussions, they should tr…

Right, the point I'm making is that warning people to stay out is futile. If someone wants to keep you out, it's because they're protecting something valuable. On the other hand if they're not trying to keep you out, but keep something in, is that really somewhere you want to enter?

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#115
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not Mormon, but I was married to one. I got that I was safe as long as I never believed. But that once you believe and then renounce, you're at least at risk. Or maybe that was belief as documented by baptism.

and here I was thinking Roco's Basilisk was the original

Roko's Basilisk is just a technology-flavored reinvention of Pascal's wager: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#116
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, pretty sure any advanced civilization will quickly figure out "hey this place is pretty radioactive; we shouldn't stick around", while any primitive civilization will quickly figure out "hey this place is definitely cursed; we shouldn't stick around". Having a visual cue there (I like the jagged pointy structures) would certainly help reinforce that and/or delineate exactly where the radioactive/cursed place ac…

> while any primitive civilization will quickly figure out "hey this place is definitely cursed; we shouldn't stick around". After a while, when quite a few people have died, and maybe their whole village and all their farmland is contaminated. This is exactly what we are trying to avoid. See for example the Goiânia accident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

By that example, it sounds like "after a while" would be "a couple weeks". That's a short enough timeframe to piece together "oh darn, this happened because we went into that scary place with all the jagged rocks and took the curse of that strange land back with us". Maybe that particular village is doomed, but villages do communicate/trade with other villages and could spread the word that "hey, we visited this weird place with jagged rocks and a couple weeks later we all got crazy sick, so like, don't go there".

Soon enough, the Curse of the Jagged Land will become part of the local folklore/religion, at which point Mission Accomplished. Worst-case, you might see an uptick in animal and/or human sacrifice at the site to appease the God of Plutonium.

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and here I was thinking Roco's Basilisk was the original

Roko's Basilisk is just a technology-flavored reinvention of Pascal's wager: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

Sure, but "feigning belief" is not "belief". I mean, any deity worth believing in would know whether you believed or not. So they'd also know if you really believed, and then renounced. It's like manslaughter vs premeditated murder.

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#118
post #108

It is a bit strange to worry about the safety of (a small subset of) people several hundred generations down while at the same time ignoring the possibility that Earth may not be hospitable to humans within two generations.

from the "Personal thoughts" section of the document: > An analysis of the likely number of deaths over 10,000 years due to inadvertent intrusion should be conducted. This cost should be weighted against that of the marker system. i'm curious re: where you're coming from with "ignoring the possibility that Earth may not be hospitable to humans within two generations" – I feel like that's outside the scope of this doc…

Right, I wasn't clear - my thought was in fact outside the scope of the document. I meant that it is strange to devote a large amount of resources to this document (which may prevent a few deaths in 10k years), while we might have already exceeded the carrying capacity of Earth (global climate change being the most imminent threat, but not necessarily the only one) and thus not have anyone to be around in 10k years.

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#119
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mormon belief is that baptism is one of the few strict requirement for entry into Heaven, but that it can also be performed for the dead by volunteer proxies. Even the most obstinate sinners and nonbelievers will gain entry into the lowest-but-still-pleasant level of Heaven if they haven't committed the unpardonable sin[1]... so long as they've been baptized, in person or by proxy. Combine those premises and it becom…

The unpardonable sin seems quite... vaguely specified, and open to endless debate. What sin is a sin against the Holy Ghost? What sin is not?

I am a (non-theistic) Satanist, and I find it easy to understand. The sin in question is to know that there is a God, but reject it even so - or, more broadly, to consider the possibility of God existing as described, but then to conclude that even if it did, one's moral duty is to oppose it.

Re: This Place Is Not a Place of Honor (1992)

#120

I feel like there's something to think about here since we couldn't even keep the page with this information active for a decade and the goal is to keep the actual warning around for 10,000 years.

That may just illustrate the fragility of electronic publishing compared to gigantic stone markers.
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