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U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

nytimes.com

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Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#71

Post by mirimir »

DanBC wrote: post #31
dgellow wrote: post #8

> Mr. Ephgrave, the assistant commissioner, acknowledged such concerns in his statement. > “We understand that how personal data is used can be a source of anxiety,” he said. “We would never want victims to feel that they can’t report crimes because of ‘intrusion’ in their data.” > “That’s why a new national form has been introduced,” replacing policies that varied from place to place, “to help police seek informed c…

I'm not sure I understand your point. In England we don't have a national police force; we have lots of local forces. There's wide variation in how they respond to crime. We noticed this variation was causing injustice: women (and men) who were raped were not having their crimes robustly investigated; men who were accused of rape were not having their defence robustly investigated. The new guidance is telling police…

Parent's point, I suspect, is about this:

> “If information is identified from your device that suggests the commission of a separate criminal offense, other than the offense(s) under investigation, the relevant data may be retained and investigated by the police,” according to written statement to victims and witnesses that will accompany the consent form.

> Anything the police find, it says, will be handed over to prosecutors. And in some cases, devices might not be given back to their owners for weeks or even months.

That sounds a lot like "fishing expeditions".

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#72

Post by mirimir »

Starknaked wrote: post #22

I wonder how police behaviour would be influenced by refusing to hand over the data? Will they assign less resources to your case because they think you're unhelpful by not turning over your data?

TFA basically says that they won't work on the case unless the victim complies.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#74

Post by stordoff »

tus87 wrote: post #45

The role of police is to uncover the truth, leaving no stone unturned. That truth might be a false accusation. Of course the femonazis who don't care to uncover the truth about false accusations might be upset by this, but is that any surprise? Funny the difference in headlines, huh? > A version of this article appears in print on , on Page A4 of the New York edition with the headline: U.K. Requires Rape Victims to H…

> The role of police is to uncover the truth, leaving no stone unturned.

This is the argument for blanket surveillance of everything, at all times. Where do we draw draw the line? If I call the police to report a break-in on my car, I don't expect them to request my bank records, location history for the last five years, and a signed statement from my family, as the truth might turn out to be that I never owned the car in the first place.

> the femonazis who don't care to uncover the truth about false accusations might be upset by this

You're missing the broader point. It's not limited to any particular types of cases: "They [...] will be extended to other types of Crown Court cases over the course of this year"[1] and it's not limited to false accusations: "If information is identified from your device that suggests the commission of a separate criminal offense, other than the offense(s) under investigation, the relevant data may be retained and investigated by the police"[original article].

[1] https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/progress-update-in-meet...

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#75

Post by Starknaked »

mirimir wrote: post #72
Starknaked wrote: post #22

I wonder how police behaviour would be influenced by refusing to hand over the data? Will they assign less resources to your case because they think you're unhelpful by not turning over your data?

TFA basically says that they won't work on the case unless the victim complies.

Yes it also quotes the phrase “Police have a duty to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry,”.

Who's judging what's reasonable here? What stops them making requests victims would rightfully consider unreasonable so the police can just claim that the victim was uncooperative so it doesn't negatively impact police statistics?

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#76

Post by mirimir »

Starknaked wrote: post #75
mirimir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA basically says that they won't work on the case unless the victim complies.

Yes it also quotes the phrase “Police have a duty to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry,”. Who's judging what's reasonable here? What stops them making requests victims would rightfully consider unreasonable so the police can just claim that the victim was uncooperative so it doesn't negatively impact police statistics?

I guess that they're raised the bar on "cooperative". So if you've been the victim of a crime, you can't report it if there's any evidence of totally unrelated crimes. Say that you were raped, but had also ordered illegal drugs from your phone.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#78

Post by tus87 »

lallysingh wrote: post #7
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

Being a victim of a crime has always meant some loss of privacy. If you are murdered, they will conduct an autopsy of you to determine how you died and possibly a toxicology study to determine what drugs you had in your system. If you were raped, getting a rape exam done is recommended to document injuries and collect DNA samples. If you report your child was kidnapped, the police will likely closely examine your hom…

If your car is stolen, it's reasonable that your Google docs are read?

Well let's see....someone reports a car as stolen but...

- they have no evidence they ever had a car

- bank records do not show evidence of any purchases of a car or insurance

- registration records do not support the person had a car registered to them

The yes the police will probably start investigating them for fraud as they do many of thousands of times are year, and they may well seek forensic computer evidence.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#79

Post by dang »

tamalesfan wrote: post #44
jessriedel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about the UK, but in the US the police have no formal duty to protect you. No matter how much warning/info/evidence they have that someone will be victimized, and no matter how easy/reasonable it is for the police to prevent it, citizens are generically not entitled to compensation for failure to be protected. Rather, the police's mission (both formally and as a functional matter) is overwhelmingly about cat…

>> but in the US Thanks for pivoting the thread to criticism of the US. These stories about controversies in non-US countries are unwelcome and cause a lot of anxiety, and the sooner the discussion can be refocused on the deficiencies of the US the better.

Could you please follow the site guidelines and not take HN threads further into flamewar?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#80

Post by sundvor »

dgellow wrote: post #8

> Mr. Ephgrave, the assistant commissioner, acknowledged such concerns in his statement. > “We understand that how personal data is used can be a source of anxiety,” he said. “We would never want victims to feel that they can’t report crimes because of ‘intrusion’ in their data.” > “That’s why a new national form has been introduced,” replacing policies that varied from place to place, “to help police seek informed c…

As a victim you may be prosecuted if police discover something irrelevant to the case, yet still incriminating.

This seems to have the potential of severe abuse, if a rapist is aware of such matters they would feel protected to carry out their travesties.

What the actual f* indeed.

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