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Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

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Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#111

Post by civilitty »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #67
O_H_E wrote: post #45

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 degrees when I started learning about the growing Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities. China is growing its economic dominance very quickly. They are gaining man…

"Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities." I know your heart is in the right place, but you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity…

> And they did, and here we are, and all the countries that host companies that contributed to this are now having a cry about the actions of the monster they profited from creating.

But did they really profit? Let's assume for a second that the media isn't one monolithic entity governed by suits in a smokey board room but by many competing entities with opposing and dynamic economic incentives, like the public's fatigue and need for novelty. Let's assume that these changing media narratives are purely a result of inter/intra-generational variance in upbringing and other effectively random factors (accumulation of wealth and social mobility among them).

Has the general public truly profited from the movement of manufacturing over seas? I don't mean intangible improvements like higher resolution televisions and thinner smartphones and cheaper everything - just because they can be measured in SI units or dollars doesn't mean that they tangibly improve someone's life. I mean by the cold hard numbers. Is the average middle class family healthier than they were before? Are they spending less money to stay healthy? Are they more secure in their finances? Can they take longer vacations? Can they afford to send their kids to college without them having to balance study and worm time? Are they happier?

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#112

Post by cies »

netsharc wrote: post #104
threeseed wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US companies comply with laws governed by an independent judiciary and monitored by a free press. China has none of those.

Honestly, China is probably worse, but it's not like the USA is the shining beacon of freedom and democracy. Or is Brett Kavanaugh an honorable man? We are all sort of guilty, we want our cheap goods (clothes, smartphones) and look away when the news talks about garment factories collapsing in Bangladesh, or when the Chinese phone factory workers commit suicide. I enjoy a high living standard, I don't think the way t…

Thanks for this. This is what I tried to address by my original post in this thread.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#113

Post by negamax »

threeseed wrote: post #102
negamax wrote: post #15

I can’t tell if this is true or an organized smear campaign against Huawei for monetary reasons.

I work for a telco and it's not about money. With 5G the architecture is far more sophisticated and wide reaching. Companies are also looking at containerisation to go with it which means that vulnerabilities can do far more damage and stay hidden far longer. Telcos are very much looking out for the interests of their users because once you're known as not being private and secure your business will be finished.

You mean the same telcos that sell location data of their users to third parties. Using dubiously marketed plans. List goes on. I think they are far away from making a case for looking out for their users.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#114

Post by linuxftw »

fxfan wrote: post #73
0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

If one mistake tarnished reputation forever then after Iraq war none of CNN, Fox, NYT, MSNBC, WaPo should be in business, specially since all of these were accomplices in and not victims of falsehoods.

You are allowed to objectively criticize the Iraq war any more as it's been endorsed by both major political parties at this point.

It's sad that the major news outlets are complete propaganda machines at this point. Nobody is taking the government to task for it's continued wars in the Middle East. The only angle I ever see is how some 'atrocity' has taken place and how we need to bomb them even more.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#115

Post by fredgrott »

leaving un secure stuff open is not the same as a damn backdoor

BUT, being lax in rigour concerning what ports, etc are left open and the security reasons why is just at some point a question of are they an unknowing asset of China Gov...

Both are equally important

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#116

Post by HenryBemis »

threeseed wrote: post #105
HenryBemis wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been playing VikingMUD for more than a decade. I have been 'backdoor/hacking' it when I was using telnet to connect? I have been audit in IT/IT Audit/IT Security for quite a while. Having ability to telnet in is not a crime. We got firewalls for stuff like that. Even if it is not documented in whatever paperwork have been provided, it takes 5 seconds on a scan to pick this up. There also a bunch of IDS/IPS out…

I don't think you have an idea of how a telco works. There isn't some giant firewall that every request goes through so you can say "block port 21" and your problem is fixed. Most of the equipment is talking directly to each other on many different private networks some of which may be managed by third parties. And as companies shift towards virtualised, container based architectures it can become harder as there is…

Actually I have, most of my employers and clients the past few decades have 80k++ employees. I understand that there are PLENTY of interfaces on a company on the size of Vodafone (let's call them that) that have live access to networks, infrastructure, and what have you (e.g. Huawei, Nokia, Ericsson to name the big whales) and myriad other smaller ones monitoring, fixing, live, a million moving parts.

The responsibility and accountability remains though. I do not accept the 'we are big and busy so we drop the ball'.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#117

Post by jhanschoo »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #67
O_H_E wrote: post #45

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 degrees when I started learning about the growing Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities. China is growing its economic dominance very quickly. They are gaining man…

"Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities." I know your heart is in the right place, but you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity…

> you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity to make the list.

Many Western countries have a checkered past, but it's not exactly as though present citizens of the West were directly involved in the atrocities committed in the past by the West. Every sufficiently long lived state has had its dishonorable days, but it's not like we can't criticize both the past and current behavior of these nations and the /current/ behavior of China.

On the other hand, it is to the current Western climate's benefit that many dare make such criticism openly on the record and without fear of persecution (e.g. Gitmo). The same cannot be said of China.

> And didn't they do well over the last 40-odd years!

While your paragraph has the tone that the West is simply getting its just desserts, I find it unwarranted. This criticism, at its best, is criticism of past bad realpolitik policy by the West. People like the parent comment are only just learning of how woeful it is that Chinese influence is spreading, when Chinese influence is that unjust. It is useful to know that the West may have fed the beast. But the parent comment you are replying to was likely ignorant of the situation then and likely had no decision-making power then anyway. Thus adopting such a tone is in quite bad taste, since the parent comment is likely a victim of someone else's poor decisions and not their own.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#118

Post by tim333 »

krn wrote: post #63
0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

I have explained why Bloomberg's story would have been vehemently denied by all companies involved even if it was completely true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655803 Many people in tech, including John Gruber, seem to lack a basic understanding of who makes decisions concerning national security and international politics.

I think your argument is the security services or the US government would tell them to deny it but I don't see why. Google 'Chinese hacking' and there are hundreds of stories. It's not a big secret. I can't see why they'd censor it.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#119

Post by gloflo »

mschuster91 wrote: post #59
gloflo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, I find the increase of our politics and media attacking 'The Russians' and 'The Chinese' in recent years very concerning. Especially with the lack of reflection on our own actions both nationally and internationally. Like pervasive surveillance, hacking, military aggression and influencing elections, just to name a few.

> Absolutely, I find the increase of our politics and media attacking 'The Russians' and 'The Chinese' in recent years very concerning. I rather find it concerning that Russia has been financing the far-right, nationalist and anti-European parties that have risen over entire Europe, and that China is using debt as political leverage to gain power over poor African countries. Add to this that many Western companies an…

Thanks for this fine example of proving my point.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#120

Post by dang »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #103
dang wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do this here.

What is 'this'? Sarcasm or not following groupthink?

Post unsubstantive comments, especially snarky or indignant ones.

There's obviously no 'groupthink' on HN about Huawei.

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