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I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

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Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#161

Post by skookumchuck »

cgriswald wrote: post #86
skookumchuck wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tests are one of the hardest ways of doing so I've never understood how someone could master a subject and yet be unable to answer any questions about it. In my experience, people who did well on tests tended to understand the topic, and the people who didn't do well made excuses.

It’s because tests aren’t just testing knowledge. They are testing the ability to express the entirety of that knowledge under completely arbitrary conditions (time limits, schedules, no references, etc.) with outsized consequences for mistakes. Also good tests are hard to write. I’ve seen T/F questions that could go either way. Multiple choice questions with more than one correct answer. (Professors will tell you to…

> They are testing the ability to express the entirety of that knowledge under completely arbitrary conditions (time limits, schedules, no references, etc.) with outsized consequences for mistakes.

Right. And if you know the material, this isn't a problem.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#162

Post by [deleted] »

pandapower2 wrote: post #133
dragonwriter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They basically just accelerate by full grade or two while raising the expectations for each kid to another level. That's...not accurate. Gifted programs tend to increase the degree of personalization more than anything. Yes, most people who qualify for gifted programs at probably going to end up targeting at least a full grade up in each core curriculum area, but the programs don't do a straight bump. > This is unn…

I was part of two programs. First from ages about 8 to 12 then another from age 13 to 15. The program from 8-12 was what you described. Lots of random subject areas. Programming, history, chess, I learned how to build a mud brick hut (built a scale model and everything). Lots of self direction. The program from 13 to 15 wasn't like that. It was more of a straight bump. We approximately did 2 years worth of core curri…

[deleted]

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#163

Post by saagarjha »

_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

I took the GATE exam in elementary school (which has a similar 98th percentile cutoff) and the test was an absolute joke. Lots of ambiguous pattern matching that I managed to cheese through because I had a decent sense of what the test "wanted" me to put down (FWIW, I didn't end up getting anything out of it, even though I scored in the 99th percentile, because the school closed the program the following year for "lack of funds"). Really: don't read too much into that test.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#164

Post by kiriakasis »

p1esk wrote: post #112
m0zg wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably because you've read it in English. For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature. Just don't. It is true that there aren't really any Western authors of the same stature as Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, but really, you aren't really reading what they wrote. Their work requires quite a bit of thought, and that thought requires quite a bit built-in stuff that a native…

I disagree. War and Peace was written 150 years ago and depicts events happening over 200 years ago - the difference between that society and the one you grew up in is far greater than the difference between modern Russia and modern US. Just to give one example (ironic in this context): the language usually spoken by most characters is not Russian, it’s French! Something like 5% of the novel is literally in French, a…

The surface can be very similar, but they are foundationally different, that will not change soon

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#165

Post by shaki-dora »

foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

It’s possible to leave traces of whatever inner conflict tortures you in your writing without even knowing.

For example, the disdain of the humanities in this thread (and generally on HN and the tech community) is just begging for an explanation, because the stated reasons (entirely useless, plain wrong) are neither true, nor would they seem sufficient to warrant the level of emotion.

So there’s something else in the subtext, such as status anxiety, even though the authors would vehemently deny it.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#166

Post by skookumchuck »

thatcat wrote: post #74
skookumchuck wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tests are one of the hardest ways of doing so I've never understood how someone could master a subject and yet be unable to answer any questions about it. In my experience, people who did well on tests tended to understand the topic, and the people who didn't do well made excuses.

What does it mean to do well on a test covering a subjective subject?

If you have to ask, you don't know the subject :-)

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#167

Post by saagarjha »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #28
HarryHirsch wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the students only knew what their needs were. My students need "word problems". Their schooling didn't teach them how to deal with ambiguity or how to make a reasoned argument. Also, in real life you won't encounter the right answer plus four decoy answers. But they want check-a-box tests. They even went to complain to administration because they weren't getting any. Apparently, I'm asking erroneous [sic!] questio…

I hear you. I took a college class. Environmental Biology, iirc. We were running out of time and the professor announced she would be cutting a few things from the curriculum. Everyone was all "Hurrah! Yes! Less work! Feel free to cut even more and just give us As for doing nothing!" Except me. I was the killjoy going "What if you actually need to know this stuff for a future class? Or even your job?!" Everyone gave…

Perhaps they gave you the stink eye because they felt the curriculum was useless, which is actually quite likely in a typical secondary school?

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#168

Post by AllegedAlec »

megy wrote: post #33

I mean, so? She writes poems. Why should that mean she is good at analyzing poems? Are game players good at writing games, and vice-versa? Are people who eat a lot good at cooking? Are runners great at designing shoes?

Death of the Author is a bullshit idea. The only person who knows what the writer's intention was when writing a piece of literature is the author him/herself. Any alternative interpretation is fanfiction at best.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#169

Post by briandear »

komali2 wrote: post #100
mykowebhn wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand I feel Hemingway was being sincere when he said/wrote this quote. On the other hand, part of me feels he was saying this just to be provocative. Also, I'm not sure anyone has ever told me "Actually..." when I've explained what I thought I read. If this was a teacher/professor of yours he/she did you a huge disservice. I can think of two reasons (I'm sure there are more) for why artists say what they w…

From what I know of Hemingway, it's sincere. The image he gives of himself (or imagines of himself) is a barrel chested beer swigging straight shooting Man's Man. He bullied "pencil necked" little Fitzgerald into alcoholism, and possibly abandoning his wife. He used a writing style that was the quintessential "no fluff" style of the period. I don't know him but from what I know of him he would not be a fan of having…

Actually.. ;) Fitzgerald’s insane wife bullied him into alcoholism. Hemingway was more of a rum drinker and the main bully of the writers of the time was Gertrude Stein.

But your point still stands. Hemingway thought not highly of literary critics.

The fun thing about Hemingway was his persona was 50% real and 50% self-cultivated myth, except we can’t really tell which half was which. As far as his style, that was a direct result of his journalism training at the Kansas City Star. https://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/arts-culture/articl...

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