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I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

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Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#111

Post by sytelus »

_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

I doubt the value of gifted programs. All parents innately want their child to be "gifted" but they don't understand what this program really means. They basically just accelerate by full grade or two while raising the expectations for each kid to another level. This is unnecessary burden on kids with a high risk that they can lose confidence or even burn out at tender age not willing to learn anything any more. I think there are probably 1 in 1000 kids who are going to earn PhD by the age of 18. May be gifted program is great for them but for everyone else parents should probably actively avoid them.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#112

Post by p1esk »

m0zg wrote: post #103
legohead wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Crime and Punishment for the first time recently. found it quite boring and with limited meaning. but I am a 40 year old man and understood the concepts the book was introducing a long time ago. I feel like with the advent of the internet, shocking concepts/ideas are hard to come by. I'm sure ideas in the book were provocative "back then," but nowadays, not so much. I even watched some lectures on youtube disc…

That's probably because you've read it in English. For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature. Just don't. It is true that there aren't really any Western authors of the same stature as Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, but really, you aren't really reading what they wrote. Their work requires quite a bit of thought, and that thought requires quite a bit built-in stuff that a native…

I disagree. War and Peace was written 150 years ago and depicts events happening over 200 years ago - the difference between that society and the one you grew up in is far greater than the difference between modern Russia and modern US. Just to give one example (ironic in this context): the language usually spoken by most characters is not Russian, it’s French! Something like 5% of the novel is literally in French, and has to be translated for modern Russians (French was the “official” language of Russian nobility 200 years ago).

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#113

Post by ganzuul »

_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

Sounds like a doged bullet. You might however still want to consider not enroling her in a normal school since they will surely waste her talent.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#114

Post by felipemnoa »

_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

>>She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district.

Kind of reminds of those fortune telling scams. i.e. The cards that you deal yourself will tell you the future. They tell you not to do it a second time in a row though ( for obvious reasons)

You showed too much respect for something not worthy of respect in my opinion.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#115

Post by sytelus »

ganzuul wrote: post #113
_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

Sounds like a doged bullet. You might however still want to consider not enroling her in a normal school since they will surely waste her talent.

So what is not "normal" school?

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#116

Post by daveFNbuck »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #102
foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

Why do people here seem to think that the only form literary analysis is direct symbolism? Is it the only thing covered in the American high school curriculum?

It's the thing I remember most from my high school curriculum because it was the most annoying part of English classes. The majority of what I was taught was boring and forgettable.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#117

Post by Zarath »

skookumchuck wrote: post #56
foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

There are people who create art, and those who study/analyze art. I've often suspected the latter were just seeing pictures in clouds.

I disagree, I think it's easy to look at this quote and say "yeah it doesn't really mean anything". But just because the author didn't intend for something, that doesn't mean it can't be interpreted that way.

Yes the ocean is the ocean, and the sea is the sea, and the fish is the fish, but if you were just to literally take the story at face value, it would be boring. Things come to be symbolic through their participation in the story. The fish doesn't represent anything literally. But the fish, and the man's battle with the fish, can be abstracted to any medium... that's the whole point of the fictional story. You're telling the story, but what is the point of the story, what is the subtext? The story is really about determination, and respect for another living being, the fish and the sea are simply the medium through which the real story is told.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#118

Post by SpaceManNabs »

sytelus wrote: post #111
_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

I doubt the value of gifted programs. All parents innately want their child to be "gifted" but they don't understand what this program really means. They basically just accelerate by full grade or two while raising the expectations for each kid to another level. This is unnecessary burden on kids with a high risk that they can lose confidence or even burn out at tender age not willing to learn anything any more. I th…

gifted programs in lower income areas are often the only path for decent class rooms that kids there will have.

The "standard" class rooms are often too interrupted, occasionally by violence. I once saw an 8th grader tackle the hell out of a large administrator. The 8th grader was giant too though.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#119

Post by jacquesm »

m0zg wrote: post #103
legohead wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Crime and Punishment for the first time recently. found it quite boring and with limited meaning. but I am a 40 year old man and understood the concepts the book was introducing a long time ago. I feel like with the advent of the internet, shocking concepts/ideas are hard to come by. I'm sure ideas in the book were provocative "back then," but nowadays, not so much. I even watched some lectures on youtube disc…

That's probably because you've read it in English. For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature. Just don't. It is true that there aren't really any Western authors of the same stature as Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, but really, you aren't really reading what they wrote. Their work requires quite a bit of thought, and that thought requires quite a bit built-in stuff that a native…

> For the life of me I don't get why non-Russian people read Russian classical literature.

> What remains is still formidable

I think you answered your own question there.

As for the rest of your comment, yes, someone without the cultural background will miss something. But the same goes for those not born in the same age, those of a different gender than the author, those of a different social standing and so on. There is always a mismatch between author and reader, the better the author the better they are able to compensate for that mismatch and the more the reader will get.

Reading an ancient and translated text is going to have those problems in spades and it can still be very much worthwhile to read them anyway, as long as you recognize the gap between you and the author.

In my own experience reading of books from different cultures and times, even in translation, is one of the most enriching things you can do short of traveling, and what with the physical limitations on time travel in some cases it is the only way in which we can experience the products of other cultures simply because they are no longer there.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#120

Post by Zarath »

cgriswald wrote: post #86
skookumchuck wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tests are one of the hardest ways of doing so I've never understood how someone could master a subject and yet be unable to answer any questions about it. In my experience, people who did well on tests tended to understand the topic, and the people who didn't do well made excuses.

It’s because tests aren’t just testing knowledge. They are testing the ability to express the entirety of that knowledge under completely arbitrary conditions (time limits, schedules, no references, etc.) with outsized consequences for mistakes. Also good tests are hard to write. I’ve seen T/F questions that could go either way. Multiple choice questions with more than one correct answer. (Professors will tell you to…

It seems like you'd be surprised to learn that the ability to recall and utilize something under constraints is highly indicative of a person's understanding of that material. The kids who "memorize formulas" aren't the ones getting straight A's. The ones who understand and grasp the material are the ones who will have no trouble performing under pressure, because if they forget something, they can recall it using their knowledge structures.

E.g. Say I forgot the formula for Simpson's Rule on a test, but remember that it had to do with approximating integrals with trapezoids. Someone who thoroughly understands the course material could re-derive this formula in under 5 minutes if they had forgotten.

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