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I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

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Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#51

Post by pishpash »

foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

That isn't what art is about though. If you feel there's symbolism to you, then that's that. It isn't anything objective, but the author consciously or unconsciously elicited something.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#53

Post by stcredzero »

pocpoczoc wrote: post #48
stcredzero wrote: post #41

Herman Melville was said to have been amazed at the symbolism attributed to him in Moby Dick.

This massive diatribe is symbolic of Melville's inability to stick to the fucking point.

Don't worry, your diatribe isn't that massive. Actually, I thought Melville's point was to digress. Wasn't the point to digress into all these side details out of the joy of describing the whaling world? (So I have read in commentaries.)

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#54

Post by philips »

Former US poet laureate Billy Collins wrote a poem about this sort of thing:

The Effort

  Would anyone care to join me
  in flicking a few pebbles in the direction
  of teachers who are fond of asking the question:
  "What is the poet trying to say?"

  as if Thomas Hardy and Emily Dickinson
  had struggled but ultimately failed in their efforts—
  inarticulate wretches that they were,
  biting their pens and staring out the window for a clue.

  Yes, it seems that Whitman, Amy Lowell
  and the rest could only try and fail
  but we in Mrs. Parker's third-period English class
  here at Springfield High will succeed

  with the help of these study questions
  in saying what the poor poet could not,
  and we will get all this done before
  that orgy of egg salad and tuna fish known as lunch.
It continues on for a few more stanzas; consider purchasing a copy of Ballistics for the full poem. The rest of the book is filled with memorable insights as well.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#55

Post by nitrogen »

pishpash wrote: post #51
foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

That isn't what art is about though. If you feel there's symbolism to you, then that's that. It isn't anything objective, but the author consciously or unconsciously elicited something.

Sure, but then why take one person's subjective experience and turn it into an entire discipline with questions on standardized tests?

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#56

Post by skookumchuck »

foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

There are people who create art, and those who study/analyze art. I've often suspected the latter were just seeing pictures in clouds.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#57

Post by pts_ »

smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #39
EFruit wrote: post #36

>Texas' STAAR tests are administered in part by Pearson Assessments, a testing company that Holbrook called a "sadistic behemoth." I have never heard a single good thing about Pearson. Having been assessed by them in Public schools, I think the consensus is well-earned.

My neighbor says they pay pretty well. So there’s that. At least if you’re at the VP level.

Off tangent but once I worked for a Pearson software contractor and they talked of their client with their nose turned up, as if they were the king's favourite in the middle ages. Cringe.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#58

Post by skookumchuck »

dejaime wrote: post #50
rdiddly wrote: post #25

Perfect example of mistaking measuring for knowing. Everything that can be measured can be known, but not everything that can be known can be measured. Correct answer to the question about capitalization: "I don't know; neither do you; somebody could trivially ask the poet; regardless it's not really of primary importance; and arguably (postmodernism) the answer is up to me anyway."

That's a good analogy. It's really hard to "measure knowledge," and in my humble opinion, as someone who once was a teacher, tests are one of the hardest ways of doing so.

> tests are one of the hardest ways of doing so

I've never understood how someone could master a subject and yet be unable to answer any questions about it.

In my experience, people who did well on tests tended to understand the topic, and the people who didn't do well made excuses.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#59

Post by duskwuff »

hprotagonist wrote: post #5

Better than some other cases ( http://archive.is/TEp6g ) , in which not only is a dadaist bit of a very wild book (which i really like and recommend) used as a test question, the ending was changed so it really really makes no sense!

There is something deeply ironic about a standardized test asking students to analyze a Pinkwater story. It's the sort of thing he would have written a story about, really. :)

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#60

Post by fenomas »

skookumchuck wrote: post #56
foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

There are people who create art, and those who study/analyze art. I've often suspected the latter were just seeing pictures in clouds.

"When art critics get together they discuss form and meaning; when artists get together they talk about where you can get cheap turpentine", as the expression goes.

(Usually attributed to Picasso but seems to be apocryphal)

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