Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide • Hacker News Board

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#321

Post by iamnothere » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:09 AM UTC

adrianmonk wrote: post #312

scruple wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm working the burger station and I'm cooking an impossible burger at the same station as regular burger patties there will be transfers between one and the other, no? I didn't mean they were _literally_ cooking them in animal grease but rather figuratively.

OK, I can understand that's not the point you were making. I thought you were saying that because at many fast food places they are literally cooking them in animal grease. Many fast food places (McDonald's, Wendy's) use a flat surface similar to this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Flickr_X... Typical ground beef is 20% fat (80% lean), and if you cook it on that, the fat will melt, it will hang…

To add to your comment, Burger King uses an automated broiler machine similar to this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSuLWkBt5MI

They are fairly large and probably expensive, so a separate broiler may not be an option.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#322

Post by johnday » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:27 AM UTC

natecavanaugh wrote: post #204

hnarn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are quite a few non-dairy creamers that work great As someone who has tried a lot of non-dairy creamers, I have yet to find a single one that "works great". There's something very characteristic about both the taste and the consistency of milk and most replacement products are nowhere close. That's not to say milk is irreplaceable for all applications, but there's a tendency to over-hype healthy and organic r…

In my mind, this seems like the most reasoned middle ground I've encountered. I'm a committed carnivore, but I do have ethical qualms with animal death, and if there are options that have negligible differences in experience (cost/convenience/taste), I'll take it, but as you mentioned, there are small, but concrete ways to improve things without going whole hog into avoiding all animal products or having to wait for…

The Vegan Society have an explainer on this:

https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/honey-industry

In practise, the answer is because it's a form of exploitation and exploitation is considered Always Bad by the VS. It's probably easier to explain this to people than to try and nuance (ie soften) the stance. Not a criticism.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#323

Post by forevernow » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:30 AM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #85

robertfw wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, there are quite a few non-dairy creamers that work great for coffee/tea etc, as almond/soy definitely do not work well.

> there are quite a few non-dairy creamers that work great As someone who has tried a lot of non-dairy creamers, I have yet to find a single one that "works great". There's something very characteristic about both the taste and the consistency of milk and most replacement products are nowhere close. That's not to say milk is irreplaceable for all applications, but there's a tendency to over-hype healthy and organic r…

Oatley Oat Milk works incredibly well. It's kind of a trendy thing at Alfred coffee shops in LA but invented 30-years ago in Sweden. It's in several stores but the supply has been limited so it's somewhat hard to get.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

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Post by cannonedhamster » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #82

cannonedhamster wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not vegetarian either if there's meat juice. Vegetarian means they only consume eggs or milk. Meat in the product at all is not meatless. Same reason some beers can't claim to be vegetarian. They need to cook it on a different grill. I'd be surprised if they weren't prepared for this. There's usually two sets of utensils in most places I've seen or they clean the knife prior to cutting.

Most vegetarians don't take the quasi-religious interpretation that coming into contact with another meat product permanently dirties whatever they're eating. Some do, certainly, but not most. A more general definition of a vegetarian food is food whose ingredients do not purposefully include any product that requires killing an animal to extract it. Note that the homeopathic definition of vegetarian means that essen…

While I'm certainly not trying to be quas-religious, what's the point of a definition of it means nothing? If there's meat in the patty because of poor preparation, that's plainly easily avoidable by scraping the grill, and bk just refuses to do it or find one of the other amazingly easy ways to not have it cooked in beef fat, you can't call it vegetarian. Absolutely there's no way for a company to never have insects, rats, and other pests in their foods even under the best of conditions. This isn't that. If they cook the patty in beef fat, is not meatless, you've made the beef fat an intentional part of the product, therefore not vegetarian. The patty itself is still meatless, the end product is not.

Edit: Most vegetarians you happen to know. I personally don't like the fluidity with which the term is used expressly because it leads to confusion. You want to eat meat, cool you do you, but don't make it harder to explain for people who choose to actually follow the definition by making it meaningless. It's like the term "green" when people guest started using it it had a definition that was understood, now it's meaningless. If someone is comfortable with meat intentionally being in their food for to preparation to the point that they don't mind if there's meat in their food, they probably consume far more meat products than they realize and I doubt that they are as vegetarian a they intend to be, which again is fine, I just dislike claiming to be something that, by definition, one isn't and trying to torture the definition to your preferences.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#325

Post by johnday » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:34 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #120

rmason wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America only one or two percent are vegetarians. In England it's over twenty percent! That's the reason it pays to cater to them. My sister is a vegan and on my urging she tried an impossible burger when it first came to San Francisco and she loved it. But Burger King is cooking the impossible burger on the same grill upon which they're grilling the meat. I haven't asked her but I'm guessing most vegans won't be b…

No, it's not. I wouldn't even say it's 5%, let alone 20%. You only have to walk into a supermarket to see this is nonsense, meat vs veggie options are like 10 to 1. You're referencing one widely debunked survey (this is about the vegan part of it, but it applied to the whole study and the vegetarian percentage claim (of 14%, not 20%), is discussed and debunked later in the article): https://fullfact.org/health/vegans…

Since you're offering anecdotes as information, I'll also add that about 20-30% of my friends are vegetarian here in the UK. None are vegan, though.

I think it's a two-parter: There's a degree of social pressure within groups, but it's also a function of where you live. As part of a university-dense area there's a lot of eco-conscious vegetarians here - which makes it easier to market to vegetarians - so they have more options - which makes it easier to be vegetarian. Feedback loops.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#326

Post by filoeleven » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:47 AM UTC

sgillen wrote: post #100

goda90 wrote: post #41

Here an interesting quote[0] from the founder of Impossible Burger that kind of touches on the meatless vs vegetarian/vegan discussion happening a lot in this thread: "[Before becoming a vegan] I loved putting milk in my coffee and cereal, but plant-based milks don’t work for me so far. No-one is trying very hard to deliver the full experience of what consumers value from milk. We don’t want to follow the course of s…

Ironically I find that I (vegetarian, not vegan) tend to enjoy meat replacements that don't try replicate meat. I find the ones that DO try to replicate meats taste are just not very good at it, and it ends up tasting pretty bad. The good stuff is still tasty and savory but it's doing its own thing. edit: Not to say the impossible burger can't be good (I've not been able to try one) Just a comment on existing product…

Yep. I first tried black bean burgers when I was first moving towards being vegetarian years ago. Now, I still prefer them to the meat substitutes I’ve had (which don’t yet include Impossible or Beyond Meat) because black beans + spices works very well with all of the traditional American burger condiments and dressings, and adds its own enjoyable flavor. Beats the pants off of the dense, grain-heavy fake meats I’ve sampled.

I was never a foodie though, so I think the format of a hamburger matters as much to me as the substance, being a kind of comfort food due to the familiar experience. Those of you with more refined palates are welcome to hold this position in contempt.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

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Post by tomstoms » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #223

tomstoms wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life, hooked up to a machine that sucks your calves food out of you, while they are dragged away for slaughter or to join the crew. After a handful lactations, or if you don’t produce enough, or you’re sick too often, you’re slaughtered too. Most of the time you’re indoors walking around in your own feces. Sound like a good life to you?

>Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life Can you explain this to me, I only know how this is on farms, the cow will be in heat 1 time a year, I mean it is natural to the cows, you can't impregnate them if they are not in heat and if it was a wild cow she would still get as pregnant as often. But maybe is the industrial way something else is happening? Let me know so I understand your po…

Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock.

Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible.

Keep in mind also that dairy cattle are bred for optimal milk production which carry a lot of problems like mastitis, birth complications etc. and yes most dairy cattle are artificially inseminated.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#328

Post by chrisco255 » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

ma2rten wrote: post #114

chrisco255 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone raised around cattle ranches, I really don't understand the animal living conditions argument.

There is a documentary called Dominion which might be interesting to you: https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch Warning: it's quite shocking / bloody.

I grew up in a rural area, with ranchers as personal friends, I don't need to watch a propaganda film. I know how cattle are raised and slaughtered. And I know butchers who have done that sort of work for decades and it doesn't bother them at all. They enjoy their work.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

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Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 3:42 AM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #310

matthewtoast wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the vast majority of cattle (80%?) in the United States is raised in factory farms; the vast majority the meat Americans available to purchase grocery store, served in restaurants, and processed for fast food, is sourced from those same farms. And my understanding is that the conditions would be horrific by almost any standard: the animals are kept confined, in extremely cramped and nasty con…

No, 91% of cattle ranches are family owned and about half of all cattle are raised in small herds of 50 head or less. You are also belittling the work of these professionals. You sound like you have little knowledge of the industry in general.

The top result I got on google said 78% of cattle comes from factory farms. Its source doesn't cite further sources though. It sets off my BS-meter. Do you have any sources yourself on how much cattle is factory farmed?

Cattle aside, it does seem like most all small animal meat is factory farmed (poultry & pork).

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#330

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 3:48 AM UTC

mfatica wrote: post #288

MichaelApproved wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're leaving out a lot more than the freezer cost. Not everyone wants frozen meat. Fresh meat tastes better. There are a lot of other issues with their "buy a cow" idea.

Frozen meat tastes orders of magnitudes better than any of the alternatives

How's that work when you want to use some? Do you have a giant chunk of frozen meat you have to get smaller, more usable pieces from? Do you thaw it enough to cut then put the rest back? I can't picture how this works.