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Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

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Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No person who keeps Kosher eats at Burger King. Even their restaurant here in Israel isn't Kosher https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/burger-king-returns-to-i...

TIL. But McDonalds in Israel is kosher, so why didn’t Burger King adopt the same policies in order to better complete with McD?

No doubt if they expand into Jerusalem they will be. They may have wanted to have a restaurant in Tel Aviv that can be open on Shabbos for non-Jewish tourists and business travelers. (Though the food is so good in Israel, I wonder why anyone would seek out a burger chain.)

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#252

As far as I can tell, I'm the target demographic for this. I eat beef (and other meat) burgers because I like how they taste. If this comes close, I'll gladly switch, even though they cost a little more. I'm far from vegetarian, but I've been thinking more and more that I'd like to slim down on my actual meat eating for a few reasons, including the environment, the animal living conditions, and the cholesterol. The o…

The issue I have, is that this shouldn't cost more at all. They're literally charging more to process the food they're feeding the cows into something meat-like than it costs to actually buy the meat. If the cows are a less expensive process, then I'm just not into it. (Aside from the fact that I can't handle legumes anyway)

There are large agricultural subsidies on meat, and on corn (which the cows are fed). You can't make a veggie burger out of just corn, so it has to use less underpriced components.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven by a few factory farms in California. You know you're close to one when you're hit with the smell of manure many miles out. When you actually drive by the farms, the reality is quite depressing: the cattle are standing in their own shit with barely any space to move. I'm done with red meat myself.

That's pretty bad, it isn't like that in other places. In fact it's better for the environment to rotate grazing lands overall. It helps deal with or reverse desertification. It's not much different than how fish farms have been changing to something closer to what nature offers in places. My single biggest issue with these meat alternatives is I cannot understand why it's costing so much more than actual meat.

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Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#254
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America only one or two percent are vegetarians. In England it's over twenty percent! That's the reason it pays to cater to them. My sister is a vegan and on my urging she tried an impossible burger when it first came to San Francisco and she loved it. But Burger King is cooking the impossible burger on the same grill upon which they're grilling the meat. I haven't asked her but I'm guessing most vegans won't be b…

The UK's vegetarian rate is more like 10% as far as I recall. Since cooking veggie burgers on the same grill as meat burgers doesn't lead to additional harm to animals, I hope and expect most vegans to be happy to go for it -- veganism is not an allergy.

I've known several vegetarians (not even vegan) who after being such for several years would frequently get significant stomach issues upon eating vegetarian meals cooked on surfaces used to cook (especially red) meat, so while its true that vegetarianism and veganism are not allergies, I think it may be significantly less accurate to assume this means that they aren't associated with digestive sensitivity to cross-contamination with meat products.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#255
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. You might not want to build your entire diet around them but under $2USD for ~400kcal in about as balanced as a format as you can expect from a burger is pretty damn impressive. The fact that you can walk into a McDonalds on just about any continent and get said McDouble and it will be just like any other McDouble is a miracle of modern logistics and process control.

Don't disagree about the process control but is 200kcal/$1 really the best you can do? I mean obviously you can buy something in bulk and beat that but it's less interesting than if you only had $2. Okay so research results: * A 2 pack of Hot Pockets is $2 and 640kcal. * Two banquet turkey pot pies are 640kcal for $1.80. * Cheating somewhat because the ratio is amazing Kroger brand pizza rolls are 1467kcal for $2.77.…

Supermarket prices are an unfair comparison; you should compare with a mini-market that provides a microwave for customer use, as you don't need to heat up the McDouble.

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone raised around cattle ranches, I really don't understand the animal living conditions argument.

My understanding is that the vast majority of cattle (80%?) in the United States is raised in factory farms; the vast majority the meat Americans available to purchase grocery store, served in restaurants, and processed for fast food, is sourced from those same farms. And my understanding is that the conditions would be horrific by almost any standard: the animals are kept confined, in extremely cramped and nasty con…

The bolt gun is not to stun them, but an ethical method of killing an animal.

> A captive bolt stunning gun kills the animal and reduces it instantly unconscious without causing pain.

https://www.grandin.com/humane/cap.bolt.tips.html

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now that I have shown you the evidence about how people in the city are more likely to have attempted to reduce their meat consumption, are you willing to admit that your initial skepticism was completely and totally wrong? Regardless of the accuracy of the original statement, I feel as though "initial skepticism" is ALWAYS the correct response to a claim made on the internet. If anybody is going to claim anything o…

> feel as though "initial skepticism" is ALWAYS the correct response Here is the problem with that. I don't think you understand how toxic an eternal skeptic is to a conversation. An eternal skeptic is someone who never makes any positive claims or reasons as for why they disagree with something that someone else said. All they do is repeat, over and over again "ummm, why don't you prove it!". Yeah, no. If you disagr…

There's a difference between a "conversation" and an "internet exchange".

In person, I agree completely. Skepticism towards your friends/ family/ acquaintances can easily poison the discourse and ruin relationships. If I have a discussion with a person I know, then I should absolutely give them the benefit of the doubt, and take what they say at face value unless they say something I find literally incredulous.

When you're having a discussion online though, it's a completely different story. People say stupid stuff on the internet, and "stupid" is a spectrum that goes all the way to "well-intentioned and seemingly-logical but poorly-researched and false". Online, and on a site such as this which aims for a certain level of discourse, every claim should be backed up. There's always somebody who disagrees that is going to read your comment, and you should give them a reason to reconsider their initial position.

This is not an easy thing to do. I believe a lot of stuff without knowing immediately why. This forces me to better account for my ideas, which helps structure my thinking. I'm not a strong enough logician to make infallible arguments, but by trying to convince an eternal skeptic, I only make my own arguments better.

[EDIT: I gave you an upvote, since you were in the gray. Some others had downvoted you, but that was undeserved, since I think your disagreement was in good faith. Other people, please don't downvote stale's comment.]

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#258
post #64
post #32

I lived in England for a bit and remember fast food places commonly having veggie burgers. This was both in Burger King and McDonald's. It was super convenient for that occasional quick bite. In the US, Burger King has been supplying veggie patties for some time, but I wonder why it took American fast food places so long to expand. For instance, why is there still an absence of veggie burgers in a typical US McDonald…

In America only one or two percent are vegetarians. In England it's over twenty percent! That's the reason it pays to cater to them. My sister is a vegan and on my urging she tried an impossible burger when it first came to San Francisco and she loved it. But Burger King is cooking the impossible burger on the same grill upon which they're grilling the meat. I haven't asked her but I'm guessing most vegans won't be b…

Where did you get these statistics? Wikipedia shows it much differently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life, hooked up to a machine that sucks your calves food out of you, while they are dragged away for slaughter or to join the crew. After a handful lactations, or if you don’t produce enough, or you’re sick too often, you’re slaughtered too. Most of the time you’re indoors walking around in your own feces. Sound like a good life to you?

>Imagine being more or less constantly pregnant during your entire life Can you explain this to me, I only know how this is on farms, the cow will be in heat 1 time a year, I mean it is natural to the cows, you can't impregnate them if they are not in heat and if it was a wild cow she would still get as pregnant as often. But maybe is the industrial way something else is happening? Let me know so I understand your po…

You most certainly can impregnate a cow that is unwilling. The following article is definitely biased, but the point still stands that the animals aren't exactly consenting to this.

https://theirturn.net/2016/06/15/2016061420160613the-rape-ra...

Re: Burger King is rolling out meatless Impossible Whoppers nationwide

#260
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are quite a few non-dairy creamers that work great As someone who has tried a lot of non-dairy creamers, I have yet to find a single one that "works great". There's something very characteristic about both the taste and the consistency of milk and most replacement products are nowhere close. That's not to say milk is irreplaceable for all applications, but there's a tendency to over-hype healthy and organic r…

I think the first step that most people can agree on is to remove all agricultural subsidies and tariffs (and ethanol requirements). That way, the things being produced in -- and imported to -- the US more closely match what consumers actually want, without government putting its finger on the scale. As the costs of subsidized, unhealthy food rise, consumption will decline. This, of course, assumes that the demand is…

Even more important than removing agricultural subsidies and tariffs would be to implement laws that require humane treatment of these living, breathing creatures. Prices would soar and alternatives would prosper if factory farms were not allowed to torture animals.
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