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Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

digit.fyi

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Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#41

I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…

And the thing is Apple is not banning parents from buying something like AirWatch - a legitimate MDM software/service ($4.95 per device per month) - where the parents are in complete control of the profiles installed on their kids devices.

Is AirWatch in the non-enterprise market?

What are the differences between the legitimate apps and the others?

Is the difference publicized by Apple somewhere?

Granting access to sensitive data via an app, under stringent but fair conditions, would be a compromise. For example, implementing a controlled device mode, where the "spy" data is on-device only, and spy mode is clearly notified in the status bar, or what-have-you, so the person being monitored knows the rules at all times they are on device.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#42
post #7

Isn't a child's phone a managed device? Using MDM for parental control seems entirely appropriate.

Being a parent doesn't mean you own your child. Particularly by the time that they're teenagers. I can justify a great deal of authority over my four year old because she still doesn't quite have the capacity to avoid running into traffic.

Similar thing, I had a nest camera in my daughter's room when she was under 3. Now I've removed it, because she is old enough to have time to herself. I know one parent who demands to have a camera in their kids room and one of those kids is 14. That's beyond awful.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#43

This is...a very weird situation. > “Over the last year, we became aware that several of these parental control apps were using a highly invasive technology called Mobile Device Management, or MDM. > “MDM gives a third-party control and access over a device and its most sensitive information, including user location, app use, email accounts, camera permissions, and browsing history.” They make this sound like MDM is…

>So Apple's stance here is really that parents should have less control over their children's devices than employers have over those of their employees?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't used any of these apps, but I thought the point here is that it's not the parents running an MDM server. I mean, I personally have long made use of MDM and profiles on iOS devices for myself and family, it's super useful (and necessary for some things like using S/MIME certs in native Mail). But I've done it via actual MDM, myself (you can also do a lot via simple distributed one shot profiles made with the free Apple Configurator software). There is no 3rd party involved.

It sounds like here that it was 3rd party apps/services that were making use of MDM functionality. "On behalf of parents" sure, but there's still a fundamentally different relationship and set of expectations for loading an app via the general App Store vs specifically enrolling a device/loading a profile from an employer someone has contractual agreements with, or someone running an MDM server themselves on their own behalf. There isn't really any way around the fact that MDM offers enormous power over devices, much of which happens without any user interaction or much (if any) exposure via the GUI. That's much of the point of it after all. That power certainly offers avenues for abuse that are different in scope.

I'm sure many of the 3rd parties are trustworthy and hopefully at least trying their best in terms of not themselves being hacked by malicious actors, but I think Apple also has a genuine legitimate concern here. A real goal for iOS is that someone can browse through the App Store and install absolutely anything they see and think looks interesting based purely on descriptions/reviews and face a known, fairly minimal and easy to reason about threat profile. Of course it hasn't always been perfect, but it's been a lot better at this then the general free for all. If some of those apps make use of MDM powers outside of normal MDM usage that breaks those expectations, that's not made up.

FWIW I personally think Apple should be required to allow other stores and permanent device owner created master signing cert loading capability, even if only via offering a more expensive "developer" model of phone with that capability not fused off. But the security and privacy tradeoffs there are worthy of consideration and efforts to find the best balances, and even in those cases I'd still be fine with Apple having their own curated App Store that remained as strict as they wished.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#44

I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…

Whatever Europe's crazy data privacy laws, it's ridiculous they'd apply to the case of a parent keeping track of their kids. The kid's right to wander into crazy elsagate videos and have covert online conversations with predators unsupervised is more important than the parent's right to protect their kid, and Apple is justified in ripping the monitoring capability out of parents' hands? Is that what you're saying? Ho…

Please be careful to separate the principle from the implementation. What the app developers had done was unquestionably against the developer terms. They would have known it was wrong. And Apple was right to stop them.

These apps were dodgy. They effectively became a new and incredibly convenient vector for an app developer to spy on children. It's disgusting that people defend them.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#45

I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…

Whatever Europe's crazy data privacy laws, it's ridiculous they'd apply to the case of a parent keeping track of their kids. The kid's right to wander into crazy elsagate videos and have covert online conversations with predators unsupervised is more important than the parent's right to protect their kid, and Apple is justified in ripping the monitoring capability out of parents' hands? Is that what you're saying? Ho…

No what they're saying is that if you want to monitor your child mobile usage, handing over full access of their phone to a 3rd party developer isn't the way to go about it.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#46

I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…

Whatever Europe's crazy data privacy laws, it's ridiculous they'd apply to the case of a parent keeping track of their kids. The kid's right to wander into crazy elsagate videos and have covert online conversations with predators unsupervised is more important than the parent's right to protect their kid, and Apple is justified in ripping the monitoring capability out of parents' hands? Is that what you're saying? Ho…

Its not about parental access. Its about third party access. Unfortunately, allowing parental access means that the device is vulnerable to malicious actors also gaining access.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#47
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the apps are atrocious. The apps from what I csn tell are just front ends for websites and services being offered. They don’t do anything on the phone itself that takes advantage of special permissions. Of course they should remove them too.

I don't support the way women are treated in SA, but I don't really see why Apple should get to be the global moral police. Those applications are presumably perfectly legal where they are used.

> but I don't really see why Apple should get to be the global moral police.

Apple already takes a moral stance on certain things. This isn't a debate. If they don't want to allow something on their App store, they will shut it down, even if it's 100% legal. These are the slipper slopes people have talked about for years. This is not new.

Apple has shown that if it doesn't want to support something, they won't. This means it's perfectly reasonable to hold them to account for things that are supported by their platform. This is why some platforms simply don't do any policing, or very limited.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#48
post #30

If Apple really cared about developers, they should create a new set of features that allows developers to recreate the same functionality in their apps without having to use MDM tech, instead of banning them without listening to them...

From the article: > “When we found out about these guideline violations, we communicated these violations to the app developers, giving them 30 days to submit an updated app to avoid availability interruption in the App Store,” a spokesperson explained. “Several developers released updates to bring their apps in line with these policies. Those that didn’t were removed from the App Store.”

Realistically, 30 days may not be enough time for certain products.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#49

I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…

Whatever Europe's crazy data privacy laws, it's ridiculous they'd apply to the case of a parent keeping track of their kids. The kid's right to wander into crazy elsagate videos and have covert online conversations with predators unsupervised is more important than the parent's right to protect their kid, and Apple is justified in ripping the monitoring capability out of parents' hands? Is that what you're saying? Ho…

This is not about Europe data privacy laws. It's about businesses misusing APIs in a way not intended by Apple.

MDMs are meant to allow a business to manage its devices through a third-party provider. They are NOT meant for personal usage, as they are privacy and security issues (who do you turn to when your device is bricked by your MDM?).

This is not the first time Apple is shutting down businesses misuing its APIs, and it won't Apple.

Should Apple provide parental control APIs? That's a separate issue. They currently don't have enough, and user who wants more can indeed switch to Android.

Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps

#50

I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…

Whatever Europe's crazy data privacy laws, it's ridiculous they'd apply to the case of a parent keeping track of their kids. The kid's right to wander into crazy elsagate videos and have covert online conversations with predators unsupervised is more important than the parent's right to protect their kid, and Apple is justified in ripping the monitoring capability out of parents' hands? Is that what you're saying? Ho…

You realize these apps give strangers the ability to monitor your child’s phone? The company is running an MDM server and has unfettered access to the phone via the MDM APIs. They may choose to offer parents a subset of that access in their Ui for the purposes you present above, but the fact remains they basically fully control your full consumer device.

Do you think that is an appropriate level of access to grant?

Parents don’t need to switch to Android, they have tools built into iOS that offer the features they need without essentially giving away the device to a third party company.

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