I can’t imagine growing up in a time like today where some parents think it’s their right to know every single thing you do on your devices. It probably would have stunted my growth as a person in many ways.
Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
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Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#22I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…
Why not let the users decide, do Apple consider the users incompetent ? Edit: Is Apple offering similar applications? if yes are they using private APIs to implement the features?
If you honestly believe that users make informed decisions when they click through a EULA, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Maybe if these companies presented the privacy trade offs in a user-understandable way - but that would interfere with their popularity/monetization.
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#23I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing considering the Union's incredibly strong stance on individual data privacy. iPhones contain so much personal data on-device that Apple is absolutely responsible for protecting that data from illegitimate access. Using MDM which is clearly intended for enterprise management is an illegitimate use-case. Period. T…
> I find the decision of the scorned developers to file with the European Union’s competition office amusing... Apple is under no obligation to offer unfettered API access to these companies just because they were filling a market need that Apple didn't want to pursue.
The crux of the complaint is that Apple is pursuing this market need with Screentime introduced at the same time Apple started banning these competitor apps from developers
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
While the apps are atrocious. The apps from what I csn tell are just front ends for websites and services being offered. They don’t do anything on the phone itself that takes advantage of special permissions. Of course they should remove them too.
I don't support the way women are treated in SA, but I don't really see why Apple should get to be the global moral police. Those applications are presumably perfectly legal where they are used.
The App Store isn't only curated on the basis of legality.
Research shows customers do care about a company's ethics / moral stance, so I don't see why Apple wouldn't want to do this.
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#25This is...a very weird situation. > “Over the last year, we became aware that several of these parental control apps were using a highly invasive technology called Mobile Device Management, or MDM. > “MDM gives a third-party control and access over a device and its most sensitive information, including user location, app use, email accounts, camera permissions, and browsing history.” They make this sound like MDM is…
My understanding is that it's not parents who have access to devices (via MDM profiles), it's developers who create those apps?
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#26FTA: "The controversy follows comments last week by chief executive Tim Cook, who said that Apple wanted to see customers spend less time on their devices." Talk is cheap and sells well...
Apple doesn't make money from you spending all day on your phone. They would be fine if everybody would buy a phone, maybe a couple of apps, and set aside until there was a need. You are mistaking them for Facebook or any of the other engagement-driven, ad-selling companies.
That's becoming less true with Apple's increasing revenue from services.
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#27This is...a very weird situation. > “Over the last year, we became aware that several of these parental control apps were using a highly invasive technology called Mobile Device Management, or MDM. > “MDM gives a third-party control and access over a device and its most sensitive information, including user location, app use, email accounts, camera permissions, and browsing history.” They make this sound like MDM is…
Apple’s pejorative comments about MDM make sense if you consider Apple thinks MDM an necessary evil that they must provide for their phones to be viable in the enterprise.
I think the prospect of MDM establishing itself as a necessary evil for consumer use-cases is such affront to their thoughts about individual data privacy rights that they would rather trash MDM than risk that possibility.
If you want to get a sense of how Apple thinks parental management of a device and enterprise management of a device in a corporate setting differ, all you need to do is compare the experiences and features. MDM is like a nuke compared to screentime and parental controls.
As a final note Apple refuses to even provide the management server portion of MDM, another clear signal that of their split feelings on the matter.
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not let the users decide, do Apple consider the users incompetent ? Edit: Is Apple offering similar applications? if yes are they using private APIs to implement the features?
If you honestly believe that users make informed decisions when they click through a EULA, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Maybe if these companies presented the privacy trade offs in a user-understandable way - but that would interfere with their popularity/monetization.
Make the UI more clear then a regular EULA, like when you want to allow a webpage or application your microphone or camera you get a clear warning, do you also consider that it will be fine Apple not allowing you to use the webcam on third party applications because users are naive.
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#29This is...a very weird situation. > “Over the last year, we became aware that several of these parental control apps were using a highly invasive technology called Mobile Device Management, or MDM. > “MDM gives a third-party control and access over a device and its most sensitive information, including user location, app use, email accounts, camera permissions, and browsing history.” They make this sound like MDM is…
> They make this sound like MDM is some scary third-party attack on their platform, neglecting to point out MDM is a system they designed. There's always been some schizophrenia from Apple around MDM
Apple is a huge, gargantuan company, and it wouldn't surprise me that the implementation details around enterprise deployment probably didn't get far up the chain to the people who actually care about this stuff. Someone like Tim Cook might have spent five minutes talking about its existence in 2018.
> So Apple's stance here is really that parents should have less control over their children's devices than employers have over those of their employees?
No, Apple's stance here is that app developers should have less control over your child's device than employers have over those of their employees.
> the way it's phrased here clearly seems to be framing MDM in general as a nefarious tool.
MDM is a nefarious tool when incorrectly used. Its intended use is to allow big corporates to deploy nerfed and bugged phones to their minions.
Facebook and Google abused MDM a few months ago and the community cheered when Apple ripped these toys away from them. The same abuses are now discovered to be used to make creepy "child control" apps that place an app developer in control over your child'd entire phone. After all the shit went down against Facebook and Google, these app developers received fair warning that what they were doing was wrong.
Re: Apple Defends Decision to Remove Parental Control Apps
#30If Apple really cared about developers, they should create a new set of features that allows developers to recreate the same functionality in their apps without having to use MDM tech, instead of banning them without listening to them...
From the article:
> “When we found out about these guideline violations, we communicated these violations to the app developers, giving them 30 days to submit an updated app to avoid availability interruption in the App Store,” a spokesperson explained. “Several developers released updates to bring their apps in line with these policies. Those that didn’t were removed from the App Store.”