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Lambda School wants to teach nursing

economist.com

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Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#51

Post by klipt »

phren0logy wrote: post #36
jseliger wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the big problems are 1. existing credentialing bodies and 2. the AMA, which wants to restrict entry into the profession and chiefly does so through the residency system. The physician shortage is a bug to the larger society but a feature to existing doctors, who wish to charge patients more and raise their own salaries. But see also https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/upshot/a-doctor-shortage-…

Hi, I'm a doc. Just wanted to add a few corrections: The AMA (American Medical Association) has nothing to do with residency slots. Residency slots are funded by CMS. I am in a shortage speciality, and we have been pushing for more residency slots for a long time. While there are probably some physicians who are self-interested enough to oppose this, I think it's unfair to characterize them as even a significant mino…

There are tons of highly qualified doctors in other developed countries (EU, Australia, etc) who could earn more in the US, what stops them from practicing here if we have a shortage?

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#52

Post by naveen99 »

austenallred wrote: post #48
codingdave wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you should look into getting it? Accreditation does exist for vocational schools, and you'd go a long ways towards alleviating the concerns of potential students if you pursued it: http://www.accsc.org/Accreditation/Standards-of-Accreditatio...

Have looked at it. It provides more negatives than pluses. Waiting months or years for someone to review every curriculum change would completely kill us.

If you don’t need a degree, most universities have visiting student programs that are less expensive compared to their degree programs also. Maybe lambda school should partner with a university non degree program so students can have access to an online library and a .edu email also.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#53

Post by klipt »

Cass wrote: post #22
hhs wrote: post #2

This is interesting. There’s also a projection of physician shortage in the years to come. This is both for primary and specialty doctors, and I’m curious if there will be innovative ways to work around this, too; this was released a few days ago here: https://news.aamc.org/press-releases/article/2019-workforce-... .

If you want a fully qualified GP-track resident, there's probably no way to compress the learning process much further down than the four years of American med school. German med school takes six and a half years to teach the same amount of knowledge, and that's already a brutally challenging course of study. (At least it was to me, a reasonable driven straight-A student.) Looking at the American med students I know,…

> German med school takes six and a half years to teach the same amount of knowledge

I think the difference is that many students enter German (and other non-US) med schools immediately after high school, while US med schools only accept students who already have a 4 year undergrad degree.

So in reality US medical training takes 8 years (4 years of pre-med undergrad, 4 years med school) which makes the 6 years look relatively efficient.

Also those non-US doctors graduate with substantially less debt.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#54

Post by azhenley »

austenallred wrote: post #18
notbob wrote: post #16

I am skeptical that these income sharing agreements are so great. Especially in software. Lambda School has a 9 month program that takes a 17% cut of your salary for the first 24 months of employment with a cap at $30,000. Which many students in software will hit, especially in high COL areas. It's worth noting that this is more expensive than many/most universities, which charge less than $30,000 per year (9 months…

That’s not an apples to apples comparison, as Lambda School’s schedule doesn’t align with a university schedule. You’re also using the highest possible amount to pay Lambda School back, and not factoring in downside risk, would-be interest, etc. A student will have spent about 2,000 hours in Lambda School by graduation - the equivalent of ~4 university semesters, because we go all day every day and don’t take breaks.…

> because we go all day every day and don’t take breaks.

If you enroll in 15 credit hours at a university, that means 15 hours in a classroom plus 15-30 hours of assignments and labs. (1 credit hour = 1 hour class + 1-2 hours outside class, on average, per week).

That is full-time.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#55

Post by bitwize »

soneca wrote: post #46
notbob wrote: post #16

I am skeptical that these income sharing agreements are so great. Especially in software. Lambda School has a 9 month program that takes a 17% cut of your salary for the first 24 months of employment with a cap at $30,000. Which many students in software will hit, especially in high COL areas. It's worth noting that this is more expensive than many/most universities, which charge less than $30,000 per year (9 months…

I am a self-taught junior web developer after a career change at 37yo. I always have the impression that this perception that Lambda's model is not good always come from people in more comfortable positions that are not even close to the reality of who actually applies for Lambda. I am from Brazil and did the career change two years ago, so there wasn't actually the option to do Lambda School for me. But it would be…

> Lambda School 9 no-upfront full-time months with close mentorship and teamwork, plus the alignment to help get me a job seems like a "too good to be true" option for me;

Well, you know what they say about if something sounds too good to be true.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#56

Post by azhenley »

d4mi3n wrote: post #38
notbob wrote: post #16

I am skeptical that these income sharing agreements are so great. Especially in software. Lambda School has a 9 month program that takes a 17% cut of your salary for the first 24 months of employment with a cap at $30,000. Which many students in software will hit, especially in high COL areas. It's worth noting that this is more expensive than many/most universities, which charge less than $30,000 per year (9 months…

I have a friend going through a boot camp, and the financing was eye opening. They are indeed expensive, but consider: what if an applicant does not have the credit history or collateral to get a student loan? This is a pretty common situation for people looking to pick up a trade skill to get out of the unskilled labor market, or for people looking to transition into a more desirable field of work.

Last time I checked federal student loans do not require a credit check, collateral, or co-signer.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#57

Post by geofft »

bitwize wrote: post #55
soneca wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a self-taught junior web developer after a career change at 37yo. I always have the impression that this perception that Lambda's model is not good always come from people in more comfortable positions that are not even close to the reality of who actually applies for Lambda. I am from Brazil and did the career change two years ago, so there wasn't actually the option to do Lambda School for me. But it would be…

> Lambda School 9 no-upfront full-time months with close mentorship and teamwork, plus the alignment to help get me a job seems like a "too good to be true" option for me; Well, you know what they say about if something sounds too good to be true.

That's a heuristic, not an argument. The fact that you can get an entire Windows-competitive OS for free, and its source code, is too good to be true, too.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#58

Post by azhenley »

lr4444lr wrote: post #40
notbob wrote: post #16

I am skeptical that these income sharing agreements are so great. Especially in software. Lambda School has a 9 month program that takes a 17% cut of your salary for the first 24 months of employment with a cap at $30,000. Which many students in software will hit, especially in high COL areas. It's worth noting that this is more expensive than many/most universities, which charge less than $30,000 per year (9 months…

I don't think it's fair to compare an arrangement at zero up front cost risk to the student to a full up-front cost risk to the student (where the loan also hurts his credit rating) dollar for dollar. Are you also factoring in the NPV? Inflation?

Student loans dramatically improved my credit rating.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#59

Post by username223 »

austenallred wrote: post #13
username223 wrote: post #7

> The firm devotes about a third of its time and resources to finding jobs for its graduates, an unusually high share. Another third goes to recruiting students and the rest to teaching. So, 2/3 of what they're paid (presumably after Austen Allred's and the VCs' take), is marketing, leaving the leftovers to pay for actual instructors. If I end up in the hospital, I want a nurse with an actual education, not "nursing…

That’s actually not how it breaks down, I told the reporter I segment the company into three sections in my mind, he asked which is more important, and I said they all have to work.

Then the reporter seriously misled me about what you said, and I apologize. I'm curious about the real breakdown between marketing to students and hospitals, overhead and executive pay, and instructor pay, but I can understand if you don't want to reveal that.

Re: Lambda School wants to teach nursing

#60

Post by jseliger »

azhenley wrote: post #54
austenallred wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not an apples to apples comparison, as Lambda School’s schedule doesn’t align with a university schedule. You’re also using the highest possible amount to pay Lambda School back, and not factoring in downside risk, would-be interest, etc. A student will have spent about 2,000 hours in Lambda School by graduation - the equivalent of ~4 university semesters, because we go all day every day and don’t take breaks.…

> because we go all day every day and don’t take breaks. If you enroll in 15 credit hours at a university, that means 15 hours in a classroom plus 15-30 hours of assignments and labs. (1 credit hour = 1 hour class + 1-2 hours outside class, on average, per week). That is full-time.

That is an interesting theory but it does not seem supported by data: https://www.aacu.org/publications-research/periodicals/its-a... or https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/is-college-to....

CS may be somewhat different.

Many schools are also only in session between half and three-quarters of the year.

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