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Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

arstechnica.com

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Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#91

Post by chx »

notyourwork wrote: post #79
jniedrauer wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't mind being able to buy a computer and not have to worry about upgrading it for 10 years (I think we're pretty close to this point already). I used an i5-2500k for 7 years. Only retired it because the rest of the computer was falling apart and I had already had too many computers. I think that a CPU built in $CURRENT_YEAR will be completely usable in 10 years.

Memory and graphics are the limiting factors these days moreso than CPU.

Memory... if you mean the amounts, not really. The gap between the necessary and the possible is really huge now. 8GB is more than enough for everyday computing and any two slot DDR4 laptop can do 64GB RAM.

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#92

Post by mr_toad »

martinpw wrote: post #50
JohnFen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't mind being able to buy a computer and not have to worry about upgrading it for 10 years (I think we're pretty close to this point already). Depending on your needs, we're been there for at least 10 years. I don't expect to have to upgrade (not counting increasing memory or storage as "ugrading") or replace any of the systems I own right now until they're over 10 years old. About half of my current machin…

But isn't that just the result of lack of hardware gains limiting new software application areas? If single threaded performance had been doubling every two years for the past 10 years like it did historically, then there would likely be new applications available that made use of that 30x performance gains to deliver functionality that would be popular enough that it would reinvigorate the upgrade process. It seems…

> But isn't that just the result of lack of hardware gains limiting new software application areas?

It’s no accident that the biggest advances in the last ten years have been in areas not limited by single thread performance; machine learning & cloud computing.

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#93

Post by sliken »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #77
benrbray wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at the same time, I'm considering replacing my 2015 HP laptop because my "A" key stopped working, and the cost to replace the keyboard is 25% the cost of a new laptop, which I'll need anyway in another year or two even if the keyboard were fixed.

Well I don't know what's up with your model, but I can get a replacement keyboard for my seven year old laptop for $25.

15" laptops that are 2" thick are largely easy to work on and get replacement parts.

However the popular "ultra" books and similar have to integrate more heavily to get close to 1". Even fans become hard to replace. Often there's no dimms (so you can't replace or add ram), even storage can be on the motherboard.

They are close to disposable unfortunately.

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#94

Post by blu42 »

If Intel are stockpiling 10nm parts now (Q2) so they'd have something on the shelves for Q4 then I don't see how their 10nm facilities are in a good shape. Furthermore, when everybody in the industry uses the 'x% yield' metrics, and Intel is using phrases like 'improving at a faster rate than anticipated', etc, to communicate yields, that means their proper yield metrics are far from looking good.

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#95

Post by pkaye »

sliken wrote: post #20
pault wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that they know moore's gravy train is over and they're scrambling to figure out new tricks to allow them to sell a new generation of processors every year. Personally, while I'm a little disappointed that processors 20 years from now might not be 4+ orders of magnitude faster than the one I have now, I wouldn't mind being able to buy a computer and not have to worry about upgrading it for 10 years (I…

New? Using epoxy to make batteries hard to replace and other tweaks to make other unreliable parts hard to replace. Popular recent choices are keyboards and backlights.

Who is using epoxy with batteries?

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#96

Post by pkaye »

mjfl wrote: post #3

What are Intel and other semiconductors planning to pivot to when they can no longer reduce process size at a reasonable pace (i.e. now)? Is there a plan, or is it an existential wall?

I think for the time being the chiplet approach is practical. Combine many dies into one package like AMD is doing.

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#97

Post by agumonkey »

mjfl wrote: post #3

What are Intel and other semiconductors planning to pivot to when they can no longer reduce process size at a reasonable pace (i.e. now)? Is there a plan, or is it an existential wall?

Forgot the options but there are some. Optronics ? spintronics ... neutronics..

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#98

Post by jedbrown »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #27
pault wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that they know moore's gravy train is over and they're scrambling to figure out new tricks to allow them to sell a new generation of processors every year. Personally, while I'm a little disappointed that processors 20 years from now might not be 4+ orders of magnitude faster than the one I have now, I wouldn't mind being able to buy a computer and not have to worry about upgrading it for 10 years (I…

In 2010, you could've bought an Intel i7 980X for $1,000 (why would you? B-but still...) with six cores @ 3.33 GHz and easily OCed to 4 GHz. I think we're a year or two away before beefy, AAA games begin demanding 4 GHz minimum, and new CPUs barely offer over 4 GHz clocks as it is, so... we've already been there! CPU power's been flatlined, especially when you compare it to GPU power.

The SIMD units are now 4x wider with 4x more ILP (dual-issue FMA). Include increased core count and we've kept pace with Moore, though only for vectorizable code that is not memory bound.

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#99

Post by shorts_theory »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #69
liuliu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Intel is doing OK with smaller die size 10nm (Cannon Lake-U / Ice Lake-U) for Ultrabooks. But for bigger dies such as HEDT or server CPUs, the Ice Lake SP is still pretty much in the air with Intel's vague timeline of "sooner than expected end of 2020" claim.

Isn't that “Ultrabook” part the one with the broken GPU that's shipping only in an obscure variant of a cheap Chinese education-only laptop?

Yes, that's the one. Anandtech did a pretty good analysis of Cannonlake here: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13405/intel-10nm-cannon-lake-...

Re: Intel Stockpiling 10nm Chips

#100

Post by kro92kfmrzz »

whynotminot wrote: post #29
pault wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that they know moore's gravy train is over and they're scrambling to figure out new tricks to allow them to sell a new generation of processors every year. Personally, while I'm a little disappointed that processors 20 years from now might not be 4+ orders of magnitude faster than the one I have now, I wouldn't mind being able to buy a computer and not have to worry about upgrading it for 10 years (I…

> not have to worry about upgrading it for 10 years (I think we're pretty close to this point already I think we're already there. Ivy Bridge machines from 2012 can still get the job done today if paired with a solid complement of RAM and an SSD. Graphics is really the only area where those older machines are starting to be a limfac, as their inability to drive the latest 4K+ displays is starting to be more of an iss…

I only upgraded from my 2009 i7 (I forget the model) to last years i7 because the old motherboard died.

I kept upgrading GPU and seeing only 20-30% CPU use while gaming. It was fine.

Some changes to how we build these things would be nice.

The heavily integrated motherboard model should die. A PCI slot on my old board made the whole system flake.

Discrete components I can stack are more my dream design. If my old CPU had been a sealed unit of some kind with a physical connector to the GPU, power, and such, and I could have simply swapped out the faulty port expansion “module”, that would be slick.

But one PCI port flaking means I have to bail on an otherwise perfectly functional CPU, RAM, PSU, and cooling kit.

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