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Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

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Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#231

Post by nwmcsween »

Multicomp wrote: post #101
nwmcsween wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the majority of users cannot figure out how to type /nickserv register do you really want to talk to them? Consider it a filter

This elitism is a big part of why younger users* such as myself have never gotten much use/utility from IRC and hence exacerbates its growing irrelevance compared to alternative tools. *Think XMPP GTalk etc. which were IMO superior in many ways to Slack or MS Teams

I'm not trying to be elitist, but if someone won't put a little effort into joining a conversation how will they ask questions or report issues?

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#232

Post by ryanlol »

Frondo wrote: post #204
nickjj wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while IRC was always available but rarely used. Freenode has about 85,000 people logged in right now and there's over 50,000 channels. I'm in a bunch of tech related channels and there's hundreds (or 1,000+) people in most of them. It's still active and has been for 15+ years. Freenode is just 1 IRC network of many too but it's where a lot of tech channels are set up. IRC is awesome. You can use it from a terminal…

IRC is rarely used compared to Slack, with its 10 million users. I used it daily for decades, but let's not forget netsplits, nick collisions, zero log history (without a bouncer, and then you need a place to run a bouncer!), no file-sharing in a NAT world (dcc stopped working a loooong time ago), and no integration with any other apps, and on and on. Don't get me wrong, I wish there was an open-source project that b…

>netsplits, nick collisions

It really sounds more like you used IRC daily decades ago.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#233

Post by josteink »

intertextuality wrote: post #200
josteink wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IRC isn't persistent (i.e. you can't read messages delivered while you were offline) It’s chat, not email. That’s a natural feature of the medium. In the age of Google, why on earth would you want to record everything?

At least for me, I participate in a lot of programming channels. I've saved a lot of stuff for later, that would otherwise be a pain to ask someone to answer it again. I log basically all of my irc chats because 1. storage is cheap 2. you never know when something could be useful later Let's not pretend individual nerds in IRC chat recording history is anything remotely close to what google is doing.

Thats individual logical logging.

Making persistent server-logs and putting them on the web, makes them Google-creepy by default.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#234

Post by giovannibajo1 »

TheSwordsman wrote: post #58
BenTheElder wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kubernetes also had (has?) pretty major issues with these, but a community member built some tools using what APIs they do have to make the moderation aspects easier at least: https://github.com/kubernetes-sigs/slack-infra E.G. Reporting: https://twitter.com/KatharineBerry/status/110594147072323584... Bulk-Deletion / banning: https://twitter.com/KatharineBerry/status/111310119103288934... They've been really helpful,…

As I understand it, to support things like timed bans your only options are undocumented APIs which can change at any point in time. So while some things are documented and possible, not everything is and that's not the level of support we need.

Still, installing those open source tools in the Go Slack and collaborating with Kubernetes over them seems better that just live with whatever Slack offers today.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#235

Post by thinkmassive »

sumedh wrote: post #152
xfitm3 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slack is trash and hostile to users, but unfortunately, it has significant momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mozilla switches over.

> Slack is trash and hostile to users It seems better than Skype and Hipchat and whatever Google's latest chat app.

But how about Matrix, Rocket.Chat, Mattermost, IRC, and other open source chat servers?

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#236

Post by carterschonwald »

pcwalton wrote: post #35
TheSwordsman wrote: post #33

As an admin helping out the Go Slack workspace, which is about to cross 39,500 registered users, they would be ill-advised to go with Slack if moderation is one of their goals. Full disclosure: our Workspakce does have some sort of agreement with Slack, so our space isn't a free space (we have full history), and even then we aren't able to get them to provide support around moderation of users. There is no mechanism…

That experience report is valuable, thanks. I'll bring that up internally.

I recently evaluated a number of options. I was surprised to realize discord has by far the best moderation / permission / access conctrol management. Plus unlimited webhook and boy support.

Granted, it has to handle gamer communities.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#237

Post by stormbrew »

0db532a0 wrote: post #65
stormbrew wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, systems that add registration onto irc tend to make it even harder to use than it already is. In order to make it better you basically have to make it at best act strangely with existing clients, or at worst make it completely incompatible with them.

You sound like you have absolutely no idea. You are greeted by NickServ on connecting with an unregistered nick, asking you to register with your email by sending a standard /msg. You open the email and click the link. I remember doing this for FreeNode at the age of 13. It’s fine.

I've been on irc of various flavors for 25 years now. I've seen every problem nickserv system can manifest and I've seen it cause a lot of problems for users less technical than me.

It's nice that you've never had a problem with it. Doesn't mean it's easy or perfect or that no one does.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#238

Post by dijit »

j1elo wrote: post #167
the8472 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - the ability to delete one's own message, and have that deletion propagated > - the ability to delete other peoples' messages, and have that deletion propagated That means you are asking for control over other people's computers and what information they are allowed to display, i.e. DRM. It is also a falsification of history. > - the ability for all participants in the community to see messages in the same format,…

I'm not sure about the delete other peoples messages, and have that deletion propagated , but having the possibility of deciding over own messages it's basic and desirable, in my opinion. I've just used such a feature less than 2 hours ago, in Whatsapp. Published a secret in the wrong group, by mistake. That's the whole point of allowing editions or deletions of one's own contents: humans are fallible , and shit happ…

That secret is still out there, it should be modified.

This is a false sense of security.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#239

Post by thanatropism »

TheSwordsman wrote: post #158
swiley wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think this is fundamentally the main issue people have with IRC. Some IRC users don’t like the idea of the channel being logged though? That’s the best I can come up with for an argument against it.

I think if you make it clear the channel is logged it's the best you can do, since they can choose to partake in the conversation or not. No forcing function. The downside comes when you've a Netsplit and you lose one side of the conversation. It does surprise me that some people are supporters of open source, but aren't supporters of open and transparent communication. Seems like a miss.

I haven't seen netsplits since my teens and I'm 36.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#240

Post by Redoubts »

nickjj wrote: post #124
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, slack has seen exponential growth, while IRC was always available but rarely used. We have seen this before and we will see it again. If OSS wants to be widely used, it needs to take UI seriously, and not dismiss it as frivolous “eye-candy”. It’s ok so say ‘no, we are fine within our niche’. But then you don’t get to arrogantly explain to them how they are “taking one step forward, two back” by not embarking…

> while IRC was always available but rarely used. Freenode has about 85,000 people logged in right now and there's over 50,000 channels. I'm in a bunch of tech related channels and there's hundreds (or 1,000+) people in most of them. It's still active and has been for 15+ years. Freenode is just 1 IRC network of many too but it's where a lot of tech channels are set up. IRC is awesome. You can use it from a terminal…

> Freenode has about 85,000 people logged in right now and there's over 50,000 channels.

lol.

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