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Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
161–170 of 370 posts
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#162I never see addressed the biggest reason (according to me) why IRC loses, so let's spell it out. IRC isn't persistent (i.e. you can't read messages delivered while you were offline) unless you setup an IRC shell. This is technically difficult (much more so than dicking with nickservs and so, which is already a pain point). Hosting it is also not free . Count 5$/month on CloudOcean or some such. https://www.irccloud.c…
https://thelounge.chat/ is quite easy to install and provides persistence. Also, IRC channel history through Matrix bridge is persistent.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Slack is trash and hostile to users, but unfortunately, it has significant momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mozilla switches over.
> Slack is trash and hostile to users It seems better than Skype and Hipchat and whatever Google's latest chat app.
And immensely better than Microsoft teams
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
That experience report is valuable, thanks. I'll bring that up internally.
On the user side of things, I work at a large academic institution where I occasionally get unwanted contact (overly invasive, won’t stop messaging even when asked). I totally get that at an office workspace, the solution here is HR. But this is a loosely federated place, and even in my own opinion the conduct doesn’t merit such a response. I just want to be able to mute people.
I've myself set to Offline permanently on Slack to try and deflect some of that. It seems to have worked for the most part.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
And you're not Mozilla (which does want to communicate with laypeople) so...
If they wanted to communicate with laypeople they'd offer support over the channels laypeople expect support nowadays, namely Facebook. Instead they are going to choose some middle ground that will displease everybody; they will botch it, as they like to do. They are already working on botching it, since they've moved the Rust channel to a closed source alternative with no expectations of privacy: https://blog.rust-l…
Mozilla did not move the Rust channels. We did.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends. If they choose something open like Matrix or XMPP, it could work well in the long-term.
The blog post says "We are evaluating products, not protocols". There are no XMPP frontends that can compete with the "shininess" of the modern, proprietary systems like Slack so that's out already. As for Matrix/Riot ... maybe, but I don't think it's likely that they'll go with that.
I like how they came right out and rejected open systems out of hand, hats off mozilla.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> for the too many people that want to have fun while pretending to communicate It's exactly this kind of flippant dismissal that is why IRC is dying, because there are too many people who equate modernity with frivolity. That is, unless our requirements strictly adhere to your arbitrarily-defined notions of that which has merit, our voices are left unheard. And IRC's greatest defenders wonder why everybody jumps shi…
> - the ability to delete one's own message, and have that deletion propagated > - the ability to delete other peoples' messages, and have that deletion propagated That means you are asking for control over other people's computers and what information they are allowed to display, i.e. DRM. It is also a falsification of history. > - the ability for all participants in the community to see messages in the same format,…
I'm not sure about the delete other peoples messages, and have that deletion propagated, but having the possibility of deciding over own messages it's basic and desirable, in my opinion.
I've just used such a feature less than 2 hours ago, in Whatsapp. Published a secret in the wrong group, by mistake. That's the whole point of allowing editions or deletions of one's own contents: humans are fallible, and shit happens.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#168As an admin helping out the Go Slack workspace, which is about to cross 39,500 registered users, they would be ill-advised to go with Slack if moderation is one of their goals. Full disclosure: our Workspakce does have some sort of agreement with Slack, so our space isn't a free space (we have full history), and even then we aren't able to get them to provide support around moderation of users. There is no mechanism…
Slack is trash and hostile to users, but unfortunately, it has significant momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mozilla switches over.
As others have said, Slack is fine for businesses that can afford its extra features, and it's "good enough" for a small business with less need for search history and more of a "run anywhere" instant communication platform.
But I agree with the sentiment that it's not a good fit for open source projects. For that, an open source Slack-like tool like Mattermost or similar would be a better idea.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#169When I worked at Mozilla, "talking to a room full of bouncers" was a common joke on my team. In a fully distributed team (we were spread out across the northern hemisphere) this is a terrible way to work. You don't know who is online or whether you can contact them. There's no guarantee they'll get your message if you send them something urgent. Everything that's not "typing text in real time" is harder and worse (search, sharing files, sending long messages, mobile support, etc.) and everyone has to scrounge for their own tools to work around these insufficiencies. In a work environment, using a tool that only does part of what you need it to do is a crazy irresponsible use of resources.
IRC might be useful in some circumstances, but supporting team communication—especially for remote teams—is not one of those circumstances.
Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server
#170When I worked at Mozilla, "talking to a room full of bouncers" was a common joke on my team. In a fully distributed team (we were spread out across the northern hemisphere) this is a terrible way to work. You don't know who is online or whether you can contact them. There's no guarantee they'll get your message if you send them something urgent. Everything that's not "typing text in real time" is harder and worse (se…
How is that different from Slack though? Did people use bouncers that don't set /away ?