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Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

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Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#181

Post by 42wim »

TheSwordsman wrote: post #157
znpy wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a contacts list that travels across sessions, regardless of client Tell me exactly how use slack, directly (without bridges and stuff) without using the official client.

Get your session key that's embedded in the HTML body after you log in. Be careful with this key since it has no expiry and can impersonate you as if you were connected via the default client, including undocumented API access. Find some application that can connect to the Slack RTM API and provide a chat TUI, using the session key you extracted. I know there are a few out there, but can't personally recommend one.

https://github.com/42wim/matterircd for example You can use your favorite irc client to connect with the ircd to talk to slack (of course it has almost the same limited irc issues)

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#182

Post by snazz »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #72
TheSwordsman wrote: post #33

As an admin helping out the Go Slack workspace, which is about to cross 39,500 registered users, they would be ill-advised to go with Slack if moderation is one of their goals. Full disclosure: our Workspakce does have some sort of agreement with Slack, so our space isn't a free space (we have full history), and even then we aren't able to get them to provide support around moderation of users. There is no mechanism…

I used to think Discord was the clear winner in this space, providing good moderation tools (being a platform designed originally for gaming), with better scaling characteristics than Slack and having unlimited history, but the Apollo team's recent post on why they chose Spectrum changed my mind: https://blog.apollographql.com/goodbye-slack-hello-spectrum-... TL;DR: being able to have posts & chats indexed by search…

I feel like search engine indexing is a feature that should be covered by mailing lists or a forum, not chat. I don’t think that finding a years-old chat log provides nearly as much useful context for solving an issue as longer-form communication.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#183

Post by sumedh »

lugg wrote: post #179
sumedh wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slack is trash and hostile to users It seems better than Skype and Hipchat and whatever Google's latest chat app.

That's debatable. I can't stand hipchat but at least it doesn't fall over loading gifs.

Is it really debatable when Atlassian gave up on hitchat.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#184

Post by coldtea »

j1elo wrote: post #167
the8472 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - the ability to delete one's own message, and have that deletion propagated > - the ability to delete other peoples' messages, and have that deletion propagated That means you are asking for control over other people's computers and what information they are allowed to display, i.e. DRM. It is also a falsification of history. > - the ability for all participants in the community to see messages in the same format,…

I'm not sure about the delete other peoples messages, and have that deletion propagated , but having the possibility of deciding over own messages it's basic and desirable, in my opinion. I've just used such a feature less than 2 hours ago, in Whatsapp. Published a secret in the wrong group, by mistake. That's the whole point of allowing editions or deletions of one's own contents: humans are fallible , and shit happ…

>I've just used such a feature less than 2 hours ago, in Whatsapp. Published a secret in the wrong group, by mistake.

By this time, it's too late, anybody could have seen it, copied it, etc.

Deleting it after the fact is security theater.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#185

Post by [deleted] »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #159
the8472 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - the ability to delete one's own message, and have that deletion propagated > - the ability to delete other peoples' messages, and have that deletion propagated That means you are asking for control over other people's computers and what information they are allowed to display, i.e. DRM. It is also a falsification of history. > - the ability for all participants in the community to see messages in the same format,…

Is it DRM when a moderator deletes a post on a phpBB forum? Or does it only count when it's on Slack?

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#186

Post by coldtea »

cf498 wrote: post #108
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, slack has seen exponential growth, while IRC was always available but rarely used. We have seen this before and we will see it again. If OSS wants to be widely used, it needs to take UI seriously, and not dismiss it as frivolous “eye-candy”. It’s ok so say ‘no, we are fine within our niche’. But then you don’t get to arrogantly explain to them how they are “taking one step forward, two back” by not embarking…

To be fair, it is "frivolous eye-candy”. But that doesnt change the fact that you are not going to reach the people which rank eye candy higher then functionality.

Why would you want to reach those people? Avoiding them sounds like a feature!

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#187

Post by mrweasel »

sumedh wrote: post #152
xfitm3 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slack is trash and hostile to users, but unfortunately, it has significant momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mozilla switches over.

> Slack is trash and hostile to users It seems better than Skype and Hipchat and whatever Google's latest chat app.

Although everything is better than Google Chat.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#188

Post by hanniabu »

TheSwordsman wrote: post #155
lewisl9029 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think Discord was the clear winner in this space, providing good moderation tools (being a platform designed originally for gaming), with better scaling characteristics than Slack and having unlimited history, but the Apollo team's recent post on why they chose Spectrum changed my mind: https://blog.apollographql.com/goodbye-slack-hello-spectrum-... TL;DR: being able to have posts & chats indexed by search…

I use Discord all the time; it's a mess. Its permissions model is complex and hard to reason about, obvious UX decisions in Slack that make for a good experience aren't present in Discord. Like being able to click on someone's name and go to the dedicated DM view for them. Discord is the one thing I dislike more than Slack, even if their backend tech is fucking stellar.

While their permission system takes some getting used to, once you understand how it works it's very easy and you really only need to setup up once. I also don't see it an issue not being able to click a user to go to DM. Not much more work right-clicking and selecting message, or any of the other options.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#189

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

nickjj wrote: post #124
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, slack has seen exponential growth, while IRC was always available but rarely used. We have seen this before and we will see it again. If OSS wants to be widely used, it needs to take UI seriously, and not dismiss it as frivolous “eye-candy”. It’s ok so say ‘no, we are fine within our niche’. But then you don’t get to arrogantly explain to them how they are “taking one step forward, two back” by not embarking…

> while IRC was always available but rarely used. Freenode has about 85,000 people logged in right now and there's over 50,000 channels. I'm in a bunch of tech related channels and there's hundreds (or 1,000+) people in most of them. It's still active and has been for 15+ years. Freenode is just 1 IRC network of many too but it's where a lot of tech channels are set up. IRC is awesome. You can use it from a terminal…

You don't get the log history of what happened while you were offline, though. This is probably the killer feature of Slack over IRC, especially for professional use, together with more seamless attachment integration.

Don't get me wrong, I love IRC. I have been using it for over 20 years (wow, I'm old). I have met there very important people in my life. But I coordinate a team at work, we use Slack and I wouldn't even consider using IRC instead.

Re: Mozilla is giving up on their IRC server

#190

Post by snazz »

bamboozled wrote: post #45
travbrack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>those people often seem to be there for no reason other than to tell people to RTFM, play topic nazi to such an extreme level that apparently nothing is actually on topic, or just generally berate people for having the gall to say something in the channel. Ops are extremely touchy and seem willing to immediately kick people rather than have actual discussions about things that challenge any of their beliefs about a…

Came to say the same, I can hardly remember participating in a constructive conversation over IRC within the last 10-15 years. Not saying they don’t happen, just my experience has been the same as the parent posters.

The network certainly has something to do with it. EFNet seems to be full of trolls and is hard to have a legitimate conversation in, while much of Freenode is so focused that it’s hard to have a natural conversation without being berated for being off-topic. Snoonet seems to strike a reasonable medium and has the nicest people I’ve met out of any IRC network.
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