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Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#421

Post by distances »

taneq wrote: post #255
sliken wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the Panasonic thing very weird. Tesla claims to be battery limited, and also mentioned that their popular and in demand power walls are being throttled by lack of batteries. Does make me wonder. Is Panasonic blackmailing Tesla with limited supply to influence Tesla's battery supply in China? Is Panasonic and/or Tesla lying about the situation?

They may just be taking a calmer view of EV demand rather than betting the farm at every turn like Tesla. One or two quarters of running at capacity on a brand new factory isn't enough reason to massively upgrade your production capacity, if you think it's just a hump and that demand will settle down again. The Model 3 may be "affordable" compared with the Model S / X, but US$35k is still luxury car territory.

> The Model 3 may be "affordable" compared with the Model S / X, but US$35k is still luxury car territory.

Indeed, Model 3 is still very far from affordable. In Finland it sells starting at $70,600 (taxes included). I'm assuming there are also import duties from the US, though don't know the details. Needless to say, at this price point there are probably more people looking for an apartment than a car.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#422

Post by sliken »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #306
base698 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a Model S last year and around the time of weedgate I decided the risk was too great and sold the car. It seems from the used market that the value has plummeted. The one I bought is easy $40k less just a year old. Repairs and parts availability is one of the biggest risks. Could easily see situations where a small fender bender causes a total loss.

a lot of cars rapidly depreciate in the first year. A model S losing almost half its value in a year or so is no incredible shock.

Especially now that the perf option used to cost twice as much (now the uprated brakes/wheels are part of the perf package). Now autopilot (not FSB) is included. Also the new motors mean 370 mile range is available with the 100 kwh battery. AP3/HW3 is also now shipping as standard.

So yes the rapid progress means that the older cars depreciate quickly. This is only get worse with the next refresh rumored to be fairly soon.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#423

Post by agumonkey »

double0jimb0 wrote: post #370
agumonkey wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yeah they're playing on the meaning of quality. When you spend 80k on a car you expect it to be both solid, pretty and not a money pit on the long run.

$80k cars are the poster children of money pits. You must not be familiar with the space.

I am completely out of touch with this world and based on this thread I may never spend a minute being accustomed to it.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#424

Post by Traster »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #341
goshx wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why he doesn't seem like a good person to you?

Emailing a Buzzfeed reporter that someone is a pedo who isn’t? Telling the police that a whistleblower was planning a mass shooting attack at Tesla HQ? Marketing autopilot as anything more than a driver assist system when misuse of the system has now killed at least 4 people?

Or indeed his views on unions which will hurt exactly the sort of people who frequent hacker news, and his terrible treatment of his staff.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#425

Post by sliken »

cjhopman wrote: post #392
paganel wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW Group’s recent Audi e-tron has to 30-40% lower range than a Tesla 3 (~200 miles vs ~325 miles) and as such I would totally see them putting forward the money to buy Tesla in order to bridge this big technological gap.

If you think that's a $10 billion gap, you're delusional.

Access to the Panasonic battery supply is likely worth a pretty penny. I've been hearing about battery supply problems from Jaguar and Audi already.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#426

Post by arethuza »

wil421 wrote: post #347
nradov wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An Audi A4 is really not a luxury vehicle in any meaningful sense.

That’s a pretty laughable statement unless you’re in Europe and get the lower trims we don’t. Pretty much all car reviews put the A4 in the luxury sedan segment[1]. Not the segment with the Accord or Camry. Following your logic the model 3 isn’t a luxury car either. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15379432/small-entry-...

Obviously different markets classify "luxury cars" is very different ways leading to the confusion e.g.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best-cars/top-10-best-lux...

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#427

Post by grey-area »

maxxxxx wrote: post #277
grey-area wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can a smart car do that a 'regular' car can't? Save millions of lives by being safer driving than humans? Drive you home the rest of the time? Drive you cross country overnight while you sleep? Come and pick you up at the airport after a holiday? Make you money during the day as an autotaxi while you're not using it? Save your life by avoiding accidents you didn't see? Radically bring down the cost of taxis and…

No question this is coming. But I think the current car manufacturers are very well positioned to ride that wave. I don’t see much room for startups there.

Software is eating the world.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out - it's quite possible other manufacturers will see the light and start producing autonomous cars (they certainly have a production advantage at the moment), but I think the advantage Tesla has is that they own the whole stack and know where they're going.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#428

Post by bobsil1 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #258
bobsil1 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Car differentiators are going to be tablet screen + special-purpose AI. Dumb cars = vinyl.

A car is a thing to get from A to B in a reliable manner. Screens and AI are secondary.

“A phone is for voice calls.”

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#429

Post by bobsil1 »

phkahler wrote: post #127
bobsil1 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars-as-software demand software-centric co's hiring ML people. Legacy won't catch up, startups will.

There is a lot of software in cars, but cars are not software. Making cars is a lot harder from a business perspective than doing AI. In the end software is just a file that gets loaded into a module - one step in a very long chain.

“Doing AI” is soon going to mean evolving a mind at scale, which is a lot harder than known manufacturing.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#430

Post by bobsil1 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #277
grey-area wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can a smart car do that a 'regular' car can't? Save millions of lives by being safer driving than humans? Drive you home the rest of the time? Drive you cross country overnight while you sleep? Come and pick you up at the airport after a holiday? Make you money during the day as an autotaxi while you're not using it? Save your life by avoiding accidents you didn't see? Radically bring down the cost of taxis and…

No question this is coming. But I think the current car manufacturers are very well positioned to ride that wave. I don’t see much room for startups there.

They’ll mostly go out of business. They’re 7 years behind Model S and staffed with MechE’s not ML researchers.
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