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Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

371–380 of 778 posts

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the transition from a flip phone to an iPhone in 2008. Same here. This is how I describe it to other people.

I’m using cars to move me and family from point a to b, the less of service and Tesla people I ever see, the better - and if I ever need to get those things, the faster they get the parts and fix it, the happier I am, as most other car owners I’m sure. In other words, I don’t get the whole Tesla club thing for basically a glorified metal bucket. Although for some odd reason I do want Tesla to be my next car.

> the less of service and Tesla people I ever see, the better

This is the way Tesla wants it.

In a car dealership world, you're sold a future revenue generator for the dealer, as you're expected to come for routine maintenance.

With Tesla's corporate ownership and generous warranty, the less they see of you (post-purchase), the better it will be for the bottom line.

I suppose any auto manufacturer selling their vehicles direct and owning their service centers outright would have a strong incentive to maintain high reliability, and yet for some reason Tesla remains the only one pursuing that model.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pool of people that put down $1000 thinking they were going to buy a $35k car, has to be much larger than the people willing to plunk down $2500 for a $48k car (the cheapest pre-order currently available). The multi year wait for the $35k version to be available (and quickly abandoned) can't help.

I was surprised by your claim so I checked... the Tesla website currently allows me to configure a Model 3 that is $39,500 before discounts for estimated delivery in two weeks. Not $35k but far less than $48k too.

Like animal fries at In-n-Out, the $35k is not shown on the website. You have to call and ask for it specifically.

Or if you prefer you can order the $39.5k one and call up service and get them to change the settings, and then they'll send you a refund of $4,500.

Does this all sound strange? Sure, but I guess they have their reasons for doing it, which seem to be mainly to keep the menu simple and steer people toward the best value, because the $39.5k car is a better value than the $35k car.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#373
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was close to buying a used Tesla from Tesla, but this is making me pause. Am I being unreasonable? I live in the Bay Area where I feel like the only person without a Tesla or two.

You should watch the Rich Rebuilds series of videos about the problems he had buying a used Model X from Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ro6kpKlw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgMTx_xFezM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxSQuGeoug8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezqwfha-BZ8

Yes, I've seen all these, and I'm staggered at how bad the used tesla experience seems to be. They can't even get simple basics right. Buying a used Tesla should be a simple, straightforward experience and run smoothly - after all, they are not cheap.

I buy and sell cheap (sub £2000) cars on the side. I have a better customer experience than that. That is a damning indictment.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the transition from a flip phone to an iPhone in 2008. Same here. This is how I describe it to other people.

Could that lead be maintained? It was a big jump from a BlackBerry to an original iPhone, but is there one from a Pixel 3 to an iPhone XS?

I think people routinely overestimate the ability of auto-manufacturers to innovate.

In 2013 Tesla won (by a wide margin) the Consumer Reports rating for the best infotainment system. It turned out that a lot of owners loved large, fast, responsive touch screens for viewing maps, navigation, controlling multimedia and vehicle settings.

You'd think that everybody in the car business would be elbowing one another to introduce a better, brighter, faster, more colorful and capable infotainment system, given a clear product market fit.

Yet the winner for that Consumer Reports award did not change in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 or 2018.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#375
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla is [...] innovating faster This is the point that so many people miss when arguing that an EV revolution is coming and others will catch Tesla. It's not that Tesla's lead is insurmountable; it's that Tesla's lead is growing, not shrinking, with each passing day. No single feature or technology tells this story adequately but the compound effect of all of them does: it's 2019, and not a single manufacturer can…

>This is the point that so many people miss when arguing that an EV revolution is coming and others will catch Tesla. It's not that Tesla's lead is insurmountable; it's that Tesla's lead is growing, not shrinking, with each passing day. Eventually you reach a point where everything is good enough so being better isn't much of an advantage. Like if Tesla gives you 700 mi range but Audi does 500mi, does anyone really c…

That argument is frequently brought up when discussing Tesla's Supercharger network being a major selling point for their vehicle.

Sure, given time and money any automotive manufacturer can build out their own high-speed charging network. So why haven't they?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#376
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last sentence is what interests me the most. How many people will be out $1000 or $2500 if Tesla goes under? I'm assuming deposits are about as low a priority as you can get for recovering money in a bankruptcy?

I suspect it would be a total loss. But rationally it seems like a really unlikely thing to happen. Tesla just made a $920 million payment in March, they have a 20% gross margin, and have $2.2B cash on hand. Sure they may have to slow their growth, or take out another loan, but Tesla is hardly at the brink of bankruptcy. There are some serious competitors targeting the model S and X coming, although none I've heard c…

> But the model 3/Y competition in the $40k to $60k range is looking significantly more sparse, especially with similar range.

E-tron Q4?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#377

Well, I guess that explains the Autonomy Day [1] event from just two days ago where they presented themselves as the Pack Leader, when everyone else knows it's Waymo (by far). Quoting user RivieraKid [2]: Take a moment and think about why are they doing this event now. Elon is setting a stage for a capital raise, he's pitching the autonomy narrative after the Model 3 cash cow narrative failed. They're trying to convi…

Am just curious, why does everyone believe that Waymo is way ahead. They have more miles driven, but so does Tesla. Waymo has some incredible guys going after autonomy but they have nothing to show as of yet at the L4 or L5 level. Is it because they are playing it super safe. They don't have any urgency to make money from autonomy unlike Tesla. Are they taking it easy ? Per my understanding, Tesla is tackling autonom…

Waymo is a technology demo, not a functioning operation that spits out self driving cars by the tens of thousands per quarter. They are many years away from having that. That's fine if they pull it off; it's the way big technology startups are funded. Alphabet is playing the long game here.

However, Tesla is talking about making the tens of thousands cars they are shipping per quarter right now autonomous. We'll see how far they get with this. My guess is that the game for the next five years is going to be convincing regulators that these things are safe enough to allow on the road. Having a lot of cars on the road already will help their argument. Waymo has the same problem but all they can point too is some limited areas in the US where they are driving currently.

Tesla seems to be improving their current products continuously through software updates as well. This adds to their sales pitch: your car will gain capabilities and may even become fully autonomous one day. They've been riding this pitch for years and while they have under-delivered on the end goal, the in between milestones seem pretty interesting.

Two very different strategies.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#378
Sales are hardly lagging when compared to the 1 year ago quarter. Compared to the previous quarter, sure, but there is seasonal variability and Q1 is the worst for car sales.

Deliveries were low because Tesla was ramping up international deliveries for the first time, adding the extra delivery time required by slow transit on boats to Europe and Asia.

Sales of Model S and X were lower because potential buyers were waiting for rumored updates. And some former S/X buyers were opting for Model 3.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#379
The electronics, drive train, Electric motors, and battery system all work together in a Tesla to make it more efficient and powerful than the competition “Right Now”. Tomorrow is another day. The custom components that make up these systems require R&D that the other car makers are still struggling to duplicate, that’s where they are at. Tesla still has a chance because of “time”. They are there already, where the others want and need to be, and Tesla will probably (because it can’t sit still to survive) continue to advance its technologies.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#380
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Do people buy a $100K Tesla because the same owner owns a rocket company? Why? I’ve never met anyone who considered a Rolls because the company used to build aircraft engines

Rolls definitely have a prestige factor due to their aircraft engines. And personally when I see Tesla hardware and tech I admire the level of engineering that goes into it and feel that part of the reason it's so good is because there's many shared competencies between the two companies

You know Rolls-Royce the car company and Rolls-Royce the jet engine maker are difference businesses - split apart in 1973
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