Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla is years ahead and is innovating faster, so how can they catch it? For example Audi E-tron has just 200 miles of range vs. the new Model S with 370 miles with a same size battery.
> Tesla is [...] innovating faster This is the point that so many people miss when arguing that an EV revolution is coming and others will catch Tesla. It's not that Tesla's lead is insurmountable; it's that Tesla's lead is growing, not shrinking, with each passing day. No single feature or technology tells this story adequately but the compound effect of all of them does: it's 2019, and not a single manufacturer can…
Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
131–140 of 778 posts
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I think people are underestimating how dire the financials are. I think the cars are pretty cool (though way too much autopilot hype) and it's awesome that EVs have came so far so quickly. If Tesla continues burning cash like this quarter, it will basically be out of money in Q2, yet they are not raising capital which suggests there is some major problem. I think Tesla has had an awful lot of financial near miss…
If they have 2.2B in the bank, lost 700 mil this quarter, expect to lose significantly less in the next quarter, how are they out of money? Even if they lost 500mil next quarter, they'd still have another 3 quarters of that left. That's not "basically out of money", in my mind.
In the near term, cash is what matters. If you run out of cash, the company is bankrupt.
For a "normal" big company, which is approximately profitable, it's fine to have much less cash-on-hand, because you will have established lines of credit and easy access to the financial markets if you need more. Much more importantly: you have a lot of cash coming through the door, approximately enough to cover cash going out the door. This varies by business: some naturally have very lumpy cashflow (eg mining) and others have very smooth cashflow (eg breweries).
A lot of what CFOs do is manage this cashflow. For corporate health, it needs to be smooth, which means at any given time some cash is being received, some is going out, some is being banked and invested in short-term instruments and some is being borrowed. Some haggling with suppliers and customers about payment dates is also normal, because cash delayed or brought forward is cash made or lost.
On the other hand, if you are not operating profitably, you will need regular infusions of cash to keep operating. You actually need a lot more cash and cash-equivalents on hand than the profitable business does, because it takes you longer to get cash in the first place. A line of credit is more or less instant, short term cash can be arranged in a day and so on. But selling bonds takes time, up to months. Selling shares takes time, up to months. You need cash to cover a cash supply delay that a profitable business doesn't need.
That's Tesla's problem. They have enough cash for a few quarters and it is not replenishing fast enough from sales income or deposits. They will need to raise money and the longer they delay, the more punitive the terms will be.
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. Making Tesla criticism about criticizing alternative energy is a false equivocation. There are strong arguments that Tesla is being ran very poorly by Musk (solar city acq, VW cash denied, SEC fines, etc.) despite the company being one of the champions for electric vehicles.
I fail to see what Tesla can do to be a more solid company, care to give hints ?
Tesla basically creating a market for EAV is very cool, and no matter what, I think Musk deserves a place in the history books for it.
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#134If Tesla runs out of money, does it just mean they will be acquired by another car company, or something else?
I think it's unlikely they'll be acquired. Tesla has about $9B in debt, had never been profitable on an annual basis, and most other automakers are plowing forward with their own EVs. I don't see much upside in acquiring Tesla. I expect chapter 7 bankruptcy (liquidation), or chapter 11 if Elon can pull the ripcord soon to have some money available to weather the restructuring.
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla is years ahead and is innovating faster, so how can they catch it? For example Audi E-tron has just 200 miles of range vs. the new Model S with 370 miles with a same size battery.
> Tesla is [...] innovating faster This is the point that so many people miss when arguing that an EV revolution is coming and others will catch Tesla. It's not that Tesla's lead is insurmountable; it's that Tesla's lead is growing, not shrinking, with each passing day. No single feature or technology tells this story adequately but the compound effect of all of them does: it's 2019, and not a single manufacturer can…
Eventually you reach a point where everything is good enough so being better isn't much of an advantage. Like if Tesla gives you 700 mi range but Audi does 500mi, does anyone really care?
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a shame people condemn Tesla’s for its troubles when internal combustion gets a ridiculous amount of subsided despite it causing irreparable harm to the planet. Musk plays on Boss Mode (along with others) while everyone enjoys bread and circus and laughs at people trying to accelerate progress with regards to climate change. I hope those quarterly profits, trucks, and SUVs are worth it when climate change hits i…
Generally when people are down on Tesla or Elon Musk, it's because they want them to succeed at displacing internal combustion engines. They're not rooting for internal combustion engines, they're rooting for electric cars and annoyed when the company (or Musk) flounders from self-inflicted damage. At least, that seems like most of the criticism here. No one is going to respond well to an advocate of a technology the…
But I only care because I was an unashamed fanboy earlier in life. Musk kept flipping the coin to bet the company, and succeeded against all odds. It was riveting to watch.
But once Tesla got large... nothing changed. He's still flipping. Model 3? Flip. Automated factory? Flip. Autonomous driving? Flip. 420? Flip. Solar City? Flip. Tesla is a single misstep away from bankruptcy, and it need not be.
I no longer see him as someone undeterred by the odds to achieve something great, but more like a narcissistic gambler. He's not taking risks to achieve a goal, the risks are the goal. His Twitter antics don't help.
The only thing that makes it ok is that competition is legitimately catching up now. Maybe not in the smart car arena, but we are seeing real electrified competition.
I don't give a fuck if people buy cars with a cute UI or not. I do care that we move to electrification. If Tesla dies, the latter will happen at a largely uninterrupted schedule with the state of the industry in 2019. I love the idea of legislation that moves that along faster. I'd happily take a tax hike to make it happen.
Tesla fans love to hate on the "shorts" as if the only possible motivation to criticize Tesla is profit based. To that strawman I've blatantly constructed I hypocritically reply: stop arguing against strawmen.
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a shame people condemn Tesla’s for its troubles when internal combustion gets a ridiculous amount of subsided despite it causing irreparable harm to the planet. Musk plays on Boss Mode (along with others) while everyone enjoys bread and circus and laughs at people trying to accelerate progress with regards to climate change. I hope those quarterly profits, trucks, and SUVs are worth it when climate change hits i…
Generally when people are down on Tesla or Elon Musk, it's because they want them to succeed at displacing internal combustion engines. They're not rooting for internal combustion engines, they're rooting for electric cars and annoyed when the company (or Musk) flounders from self-inflicted damage. At least, that seems like most of the criticism here. No one is going to respond well to an advocate of a technology the…
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
A few more years of this amd they may be bought out by the likes of BMW. The tesla brand is worth something, even if on the hood of a german car.
BMW doesn't need to pay top dollar for a prestigious brand, they already have one. Tesla will be bought out by the likes of Geely or Tata who don't have strong brands of their own, but have already been going around and scooping up smaller car brands like Volvo and Jaguar.
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Model 3 owner here: Tesla already feels at least three years ahead of other manufacturers, and the cars other manufacturers are promising in the next few years are aiming to possibly compete with what Tesla's been selling for at least a year. The Model S is being sold today with 370 miles of range, Autopilot, and the Supercharger network. Where will Tesla be in a few years if/when other manufacturers catch up with th…
Bankrupt?
Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a shame people condemn Tesla’s for its troubles when internal combustion gets a ridiculous amount of subsided despite it causing irreparable harm to the planet. Musk plays on Boss Mode (along with others) while everyone enjoys bread and circus and laughs at people trying to accelerate progress with regards to climate change. I hope those quarterly profits, trucks, and SUVs are worth it when climate change hits i…
We are definitely living in different universes. ICEs do not get any subsidies, quite the opposite: in many countries, e.g. the whole EU gas is so heavily taxed that more than half of the retail price is tax. Also, Tesla is an easy target to make fun of, because of its narcistic, arrogant CEO that seems to think that he can outsmart everyone, when in fact his business is a total mess.