Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#51

Post by stonogo » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 12:57 AM UTC

itslennysfault wrote: post #24

haxton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no fan of Musk's, but it's so disingenuous and discrediting to say things like that. Musk very clearly did _not_ get stoned with Joe. Taking a puff off of a joint is akin to taking a drink or two of beer. You're going to have much more of a placebo than anything. There's no reason to lie to make Musk look stupid. He's doing that plenty well himself.

More importantly, who cares if he did get stoned?

The people who issued him a United States Department of Defense security clearance, to start with.

At least they should. I guess Musk plays by different rules than us plebians.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#52

Post by bduerst » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 12:57 AM UTC

ceedan wrote: post #48

TylerE wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're saying that NOW. What will they be saying in a year or three?

That's the implication. Apple/iPhone customers were happy a decade ago, and are still happy today.

That's survivor bias. What about the happy blackberry customers?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#53

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 12:57 AM UTC

danappelxx wrote: post #30

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

I see this trend continuing for Tesla. Aside from Musk's leadership, which is very polarizing, I don't see their cars as being very compelling compared to the upcoming offerings of Audi and Porsche. Tesla isn't really competing against Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota. Instead they are competing against BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/Audi. By comparison Teslas seems like a toy compared to those other brands so I will gladly wait and gi…

The profit margin is a lot thicker in the luxury car market. It's a lot harder for Tesla to compete with economy vehicles produced by Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota since they have established production lines and can out-produce and out-price Tesla.

Lincoln/Cadillac/Acura/Lexus...

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#54

Post by RivieraKid » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 12:58 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #18

S_A_P wrote: post #14

As someone who does not have any stake in Tesla, I dont see a path forward for them without a company with the bank account on the scale of Apple/Google/Amazon funding them. Bootstrapping software is hard, hardware is harder, cars are 10x harder than those squared...

The irony is that Tesla was supposed to bankroll SpaceX, but SpaceX is killing it on profits and Tesla is floundering. If anything it looks like SpaceX will end up bankrolling Tesla. Musk should forget about trying to save this planet and focus on getting to the red one.

You mean Musk selling his share and putting it into SpaceX?

SpaceX laid off 10% this year and their recent attempt to raise money didn't go well.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#55

Post by moduspol » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 12:59 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #39

cmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think pretty much every single person who owns a Model S/X would tell you that they're never going back to the old German crew. Tesla enjoys the strongest brand loyalty of any car manufacturer. Apple-like loyalty. Tesla doesn't feel like a toy, it feels like the future. They're years ahead of everybody else in terms of tech that is usable today.

They're saying that NOW. What will they be saying in a year or three?

Model 3 owner here:

Tesla already feels at least three years ahead of other manufacturers, and the cars other manufacturers are promising in the next few years are aiming to possibly compete with what Tesla's been selling for at least a year.

The Model S is being sold today with 370 miles of range, Autopilot, and the Supercharger network. Where will Tesla be in a few years if/when other manufacturers catch up with that?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#56

Post by jwr » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 12:59 AM UTC

mamon wrote: post #38

toomuchtodo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a shame people condemn Tesla’s for its troubles when internal combustion gets a ridiculous amount of subsided despite it causing irreparable harm to the planet. Musk plays on Boss Mode (along with others) while everyone enjoys bread and circus and laughs at people trying to accelerate progress with regards to climate change. I hope those quarterly profits, trucks, and SUVs are worth it when climate change hits i…

We are definitely living in different universes. ICEs do not get any subsidies, quite the opposite: in many countries, e.g. the whole EU gas is so heavily taxed that more than half of the retail price is tax. Also, Tesla is an easy target to make fun of, because of its narcistic, arrogant CEO that seems to think that he can outsmart everyone, when in fact his business is a total mess.

Of course ICEs get subsidies. The subsidy is in the form of a carbon tax that we do not collect, even though we should. Every ICE produces emissions which will soon make most of our planet uninhabitable. There should be a carbon tax, so that we can offset this destruction: by building nuclear plants, or figuring out how to re-capture the carbon emitted into the atmosphere.

And yet we do not collect that tax, hence heavily subsidizing ICEs. This is credited by our children and grandchildren, who will end up with a massively changed (for the worse) planet.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#57

Post by bduerst » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 12:59 AM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #32

S_A_P wrote: post #14

As someone who does not have any stake in Tesla, I dont see a path forward for them without a company with the bank account on the scale of Apple/Google/Amazon funding them. Bootstrapping software is hard, hardware is harder, cars are 10x harder than those squared...

What about another carmaker buying them out?

Volkswagen tried but Musk shot specifically shot it down on hubris, despite VW's cash and manufacturing capacity being the solution to Tesla's problems at the time.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/public-bravado-private-doubts-h...

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#58

Post by slg » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:00 AM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

I see this trend continuing for Tesla. Aside from Musk's leadership, which is very polarizing, I don't see their cars as being very compelling compared to the upcoming offerings of Audi and Porsche. Tesla isn't really competing against Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota. Instead they are competing against BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/Audi. By comparison Teslas seems like a toy compared to those other brands so I will gladly wait and gi…

Is there any Audi, Porsche, or BMW on the horizon that will be close to competing on price with the Model 3? They all seem to be targeting the Model S/X market and Tesla's results seem to be showing that market is shrinking.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#59

Post by dstaley » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:00 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #39

cmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think pretty much every single person who owns a Model S/X would tell you that they're never going back to the old German crew. Tesla enjoys the strongest brand loyalty of any car manufacturer. Apple-like loyalty. Tesla doesn't feel like a toy, it feels like the future. They're years ahead of everybody else in terms of tech that is usable today.

They're saying that NOW. What will they be saying in a year or three?

They also said that seven years ago when the first Model S was released. In three years, some auto makers might be where Tesla was seven years ago, but it'll be a good while before anyone reaches the point Tesla is at right now.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#60

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 1:00 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #25

nostrademons wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that Tesla was supposed to bankroll SpaceX, but SpaceX is killing it on profits and Tesla is floundering. If anything it looks like SpaceX will end up bankrolling Tesla. Musk should forget about trying to save this planet and focus on getting to the red one.

It’s a shame people condemn Tesla’s for its troubles when internal combustion gets a ridiculous amount of subsided despite it causing irreparable harm to the planet. Musk plays on Boss Mode (along with others) while everyone enjoys bread and circus and laughs at people trying to accelerate progress with regards to climate change. I hope those quarterly profits, trucks, and SUVs are worth it when climate change hits i…

Yuh, electricity production totally doesn't overlap with the subsidies that petroleum drilling gets, not one little bit, not at all.

Of course moving to electric vehicles is a necessary step towards getting off of the petrocarbons, but it isn't sufficient, production of electricity also has to move off of them.