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Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

tesla.com

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Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#341

Post by codeulike »

alkonaut wrote: post #323

I'm wondering what types of range extension methods could be easily added to an EV. Scenario: I'm going to drive 900km/560mi and it's -10 outside (I do this multiple times per year). I want a cosy room temperature inside the cabin. - How can I ensure I waste as little range as possible on heating, so that I don't risk having to make e.g. 2 stops instead of one? - More critically, if I get stuck in traffic for several…

My hunch is that heating is pretty insignificant compared to the huge power needed to move the car, like single digit percentage. But I like your question at the end and would be interested in someone running the numbers.

edit: Ok here we go - Model 3 users report using about 240 to 300 watt-hours per mile. So I think that means a 1KW heater for an hour is equivalent to about 3 or 4 miles of range.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#342

Post by Zach_the_Lizard »

georgerobinson wrote: post #303
brownbat wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil changes belong in here somewhere too. I'm not sure if oil changes are the biggest source of profit, but they probably are the highest volume service. And those get customers in the shop for generally unnecessary upsells (like pumping cleaner into the climate control system to "flush" it? that is a scam, right?). Marketplace's analysis: https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/24/sustainability/whats-... If anything, p…

It's interesting that a lot of readers here and websites in the U.S are saying oil changes every 3,000 or 5,000 miles. This is absolutely not the case in Europe where most cars are on 10,000 or 20,000 mile intervals. I wonder if this is due to much more diverse weather and temperatures you see in the U.S throughout the year and so different grades of oil are required that degrade much faster.

My last car said 10k miles in the owner's manual, but every time I got the oil changed the dealership would always lie and say 5k miles was recommended.

Maybe that was true decades ago, but it's no longer true. They prey on the misinformed. To be charitable, maybe they know many people wait too long, but I doubt it.

I went every 10k miles or so.

Other cars can go longer distances without an oil change, as you say.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#343

Post by navigatesol »

taneq wrote: post #334
dforrestwilson wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe that they are doing false advertising around FSD, could they also be doing false advertising about this?

It's pretty hard to fake a vehicle's range. It's a lot easier to oversell an experimental system which isn't available to the general public and won't be for 6 months - ∞.

>It's pretty hard to fake a vehicle's range.

No it isn't. There are so many variables that go into range, from road conditions, weather, driver habits, wind, that nobody actually gets the exact stated range anyway.

I'm not saying they're faking it, but it certainly wouldn't be pretty hard.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#344

Post by bryanlarsen »

bishopknight wrote: post #255
codeulike wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car batteries are not much like phone batteries. A car battery pack is a system in itself, with thousands of small cells supported by cooling, heating, monitoring and balancing systems. edit: there are recommendations for Tesla daily use that say go to 90% most of the time. But still a bit different to putting 12% completely out of reach like Audi have done.

Tesla is also deep in the red so I partially read these PR announcements with a grain of salt as they desperately try to acquire capital

Toyota's debt to equity ratio is three times that of Tesla's.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#345

Post by PeterStuer »

codeulike wrote: post #244

Compare to the Audi e-Tron, which has a fairly massive 95kWH battery but only scores 204 miles of EPA range. They claim they're only using 88% of the battery capacity so that charging is faster and battery longevity is preserved, but thats a really weird engineering decision that belies the fact they have made a terribly inefficient (and perhaps rapidly degrading?) battery pack/drivetrain. Meanwhile the base Model S,…

Several of the 'traditional' automakers have EV models just to comply with the EU average emission targets agreements [1]. Fiat Chrysler paid Tesla a handsome sum to have its production 'pooled' [2], and others produce subpar EV and low emission vehicles because of the perversity of 'Super credits' (one produced EV can be counted more than once when the the average is calculated).

[1]"Fiat Chrysler taps Tesla to avoid EU emission fine" https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fiat-chrysler-taps-tesla-t...

[2] "Reducing CO2 emissions from passenger cars" https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_...

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#346

Post by grecy »

jacquesm wrote: post #228
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the autonomy presentation yesterday they said they could create more robotaxis if they ship smaller batteries. So I wouldn’t assume it means sales are poor. They’re focused now on building out a self driving fleet of customer cars, which they plan to activate as taxis in the future.

> In the autonomy presentation yesterday they said they could create more robotaxis if they ship smaller batteries. More? The challenge is not to ship more of them, the challenge is to ship one .

> The challenge is not to ship more of them, the challenge is to ship one.

Of course, if you believe what Elon said two days ago, the fascinating thing is that every Tesla shipping right now is already a robotaxi, it just needs a fee software OTA update at some point.

So in that regard the more Teslas they can get on the road in the next ~2 years, the more robotaxis there will be at "Autonomy Launch" (...whenever that happens to be)

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#347

Post by ljcn »

georgerobinson wrote: post #303
brownbat wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil changes belong in here somewhere too. I'm not sure if oil changes are the biggest source of profit, but they probably are the highest volume service. And those get customers in the shop for generally unnecessary upsells (like pumping cleaner into the climate control system to "flush" it? that is a scam, right?). Marketplace's analysis: https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/24/sustainability/whats-... If anything, p…

It's interesting that a lot of readers here and websites in the U.S are saying oil changes every 3,000 or 5,000 miles. This is absolutely not the case in Europe where most cars are on 10,000 or 20,000 mile intervals. I wonder if this is due to much more diverse weather and temperatures you see in the U.S throughout the year and so different grades of oil are required that degrade much faster.

I heard it is a hangover from the days of using mineral oil.

Modern synthetic oils last much longer.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#348

Post by navigatesol »

Isinlor wrote: post #327
gutnor wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely about battery capacity and range. Tesla have consistently delivered in that side of things. The core of their car business is solid. Their problem on the production side is not surprising. Missing deadlines and production targets is business as usual for "startups" (between quotes because they are massive, however still very much a new and small player in that field) "We will deliver million of widget in 2 y…

Independent researchers have already proven Musk to be 100% right about LIDAR. Pseudo-LiDAR from Visual Depth Estimation: Bridging the Gap in 3D Object Detection for Autonomous Driving https://arxiv.org/abs/1812.07179 3D object detection is an essential task in autonomous driving. Recent techniques excel with highly accurate detection rates, provided the 3D input data is obtained from precise but expensive LiDAR tech…

>Independent researchers have already proven Musk to be 100% right about LIDAR.

Well, you better let all the other smart people doing this work know! They're all doomed!

Why do you think it's one or the other-neural nets and LIDAR-, and not both? The more sensors the better.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#349

Post by janlaureys »

benj111 wrote: post #240
adrianN wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to introduce in-car purchases. Pay to overtake.

Pay to emergency brake would seem to have the potential for higher margins?

We have detected an emergency situation and can avoid this upcoming collision by automatically applying full force breaking. Do you accept the payment of $14,99 ?

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#350

Post by navigatesol »

sidcool wrote: post #225
dforrestwilson wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe that they are doing false advertising around FSD, could they also be doing false advertising about this?

It's highly unlikely. This is a public event and they will be held even more accountable than when Elon tweets something. Lying at such a stage would risk their reputation. So I say it's unlikely, not impossible though.

>Lying at such a stage would risk their reputation.

But the thing is, the fans never say it's a lie.

Battery swaps, Solar Shingles, Alien Dreadnought factory producing so quickly you need strobe lights to see machines, Full-Self Driving, profits forever, robot taxis...these are not lies, they are simply things that haven't happened yet.

Years ago the guy literally walked onto a Hollywood set and demonstrated the Solar shingles. Now they are writing down Solar City and getting in trouble for not producing enough or providing the promised jobs at the subsidized factory in New York. Lie?

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