Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries • Hacker News Board

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#261

Post by tim333 » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:42 AM UTC

bishopknight wrote: post #252

tim333 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...88% of the battery capacity...weird engineering decision Musk was talking about existing packs lasting 400,000 miles and working on new ones that will do 1 million. You can't get those sort of life spans if you use the full cycle - think how long your phone battery lasts.

So it's optimal to not fully cycle batteries then? It's better to keep them mid charged and top them off?

I believe they last longer if you don't fully charge. My thinkpad used to have a setting where you could stop the charge at 85 or 90%. For storage apparently its best to have them something like half charged and kept somewhere cold.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#262

Post by alimbada » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:43 AM UTC

sidcool wrote: post #79

What is super cool about Tesla is their laser sharp focus on creating a good electric vehicle. From the autonomy announcement and then this one, they are creating tools purpose built for cars, like new chips for self driving, battery tech etc. They have done so much in so little time, we have come to expect more from them. There is only so much a car company can innovate, Tesla has gone beyond it. Edit: I am a Tesla…

> I don't condone their false advertising around FSD.

Can you elaborate on this?

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#263

Post by floatingatoll » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:43 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #169

rootusrootus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to me. I judge Tesla on the same metrics as any other car company. The Model S is getting long in the tooth.

As long as I can smoke that Maserati at a stoplight on Sand Hill Road, not a problem.

I’ve done that in PA with a Ford Focus because the Maserati driver was on their cell phone. They obviously caught up and passed me once they bothered to start driving, but I bet they didn’t look at their cell phone the rest of their drive home, either.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#264

Post by martin_a » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #258

codeulike wrote: post #244

Compare to the Audi e-Tron, which has a fairly massive 95kWH battery but only scores 204 miles of EPA range. They claim they're only using 88% of the battery capacity so that charging is faster and battery longevity is preserved, but thats a really weird engineering decision that belies the fact they have made a terribly inefficient (and perhaps rapidly degrading?) battery pack/drivetrain. Meanwhile the base Model S,…

A few observations, before I derail I do not want to dismiss the efforts of Audi or Jaguar but I think their initial focus was being good examples for their respective brands with regards to their packaging. Their interior quality of a different generation and caliber than Tesla. The EV part was an important concern but secondary. They can still rack up significant ZEV credits in California letting them off the hook…

> Not 100% sure about the iPace but Jaguar even contracted out assembly.

I think I have heard they outsourced that to Range Rover. Or the Range Rover Velar (or something like that) has the same baseplate as the iPace. Not sure.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#265

Post by deadbunny » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

michaelmcmillan wrote: post #234

cperciva wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it any worse than what other manufacturers deal with? The 2019 Honda Accord shares some parts with the 2018 Honda Accord which shares some parts with the 2017 model... when something breaks in my Honda the first question is "do they still make/use this part or did they change it in newer models?"

A former Tesla employee, who worked on their IT infrastructure and whose NDA has expired, has revealed the technical shit show going on behind the scenes at Tesla. (I'm a Tesla fanboy as well, but this is scary). https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939617404645376

That is a highly amusing/horrifying thread.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#266

Post by Brakenshire » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:45 AM UTC

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #146

viburnum wrote: post #61

Tesla’s cars are not especially energy efficient: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/30/what-are-the-most-effic...

The model X tesla before this upgrade was much more efficient than the latest tesla killers from europe. This article [1] showed the audi e-tron is 23% less efficient than a model x (the family truckster huge suv tesla), and the i-pace is 26% less efficient. That is before the 10% performance. Tesla has excellent efficiency, much better than these german cars. The hundai is also a great, efficient car too. 1. https:/…

That test doesn’t take into account increased battery buffers on the IPace or eTron, so it’s strange to call it an efficiency test.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#267

Post by floatingatoll » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

brianpgordon wrote: post #142

azhenley wrote: post #3

They also announced on Twitter: "As a thank you to our Tesla owners, all existing Model S and Model X owners who wish to purchase a new Model S or Model X Performance car will get the Ludicrous Mode upgrade, a $20,000 value, at no additional charge" https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/1120852649400623105

Also: "In addition to our Long Range and Performance variants, we’re also re-introducing a lower entry price for Model S and Model X by bringing back our Standard Range option, now available for an even greater value with the new drivetrain and suspension updates." They just can't leave their pricing structure alone. How does Tesla management not appreciate how unnecessarily confusing this is for consumers?

Consumers don’t care what yesterday’s prices or options were, prior to a purchase anyways. They care what today’s price is, what rebates are available, and what financing options are available for it.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#268

Post by deadbunny » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:48 AM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #236

alephx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me about it, I had a 2007 1 series BMW and its transmission computer became dead. Now, I was quoted 4000USD at the dealership (the car was worth about 5000 at that point). I went to a third party specializing in automatic transmission and they almost could do it by swapping the computer from a crashed car. Turns out it needs an encryption key (who only the dealership has) to get the car to recognize the computer…

One thing to keep in mind is that one person's spare part may be another' srolen car or car parts. Especially in Europe, stealing parts is a thing. Some gangs won't steal entire cars, but only break in and take parts according to a "shopping list". Locking components to one another helps to make stolen parts useless and acts as a deterrent.

Then there should be a mechanism of being able to prove provenance of part and forcing the manufacturer to "re pair" components into another car without having to pay an absurd price.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#269

Post by gutnor » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

dforrestwilson wrote: post #217

sidcool wrote: post #79

What is super cool about Tesla is their laser sharp focus on creating a good electric vehicle. From the autonomy announcement and then this one, they are creating tools purpose built for cars, like new chips for self driving, battery tech etc. They have done so much in so little time, we have come to expect more from them. There is only so much a car company can innovate, Tesla has gone beyond it. Edit: I am a Tesla…

If you believe that they are doing false advertising around FSD, could they also be doing false advertising about this?

Unlikely about battery capacity and range. Tesla have consistently delivered in that side of things. The core of their car business is solid.

Their problem on the production side is not surprising. Missing deadlines and production targets is business as usual for "startups" (between quotes because they are massive, however still very much a new and small player in that field) "We will deliver million of widget in 2 years for $20" really means "we will deliver 100K widget in 5 years for $40" with the enthousiasm you expect of a company at that stage.

Every claim around autonomous driving have been bullshit and they have doubled down on their bullshit instead of owning up. The grandiose announcement, Trumpish tweeting and technical presentation that carefully avoid talking about the current technical issue they must have solved ? That smells like they are trippling down. They avoid false advertising by kicking the can down the road further. eg: they aggressively talk down LIDAR because their current car do not have it but they are bound by their claim that every car is fully autonomous ready.

Re: Changes to Models S and X allow them to travel longer without larger batteries

#270

Post by serpix » Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 9:55 AM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #236

alephx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me about it, I had a 2007 1 series BMW and its transmission computer became dead. Now, I was quoted 4000USD at the dealership (the car was worth about 5000 at that point). I went to a third party specializing in automatic transmission and they almost could do it by swapping the computer from a crashed car. Turns out it needs an encryption key (who only the dealership has) to get the car to recognize the computer…

One thing to keep in mind is that one person's spare part may be another' srolen car or car parts. Especially in Europe, stealing parts is a thing. Some gangs won't steal entire cars, but only break in and take parts according to a "shopping list". Locking components to one another helps to make stolen parts useless and acts as a deterrent.

Yeah my dad and my mother both had their cars broken into and both of their steering wheels stolen. The door locks were surgically removed and nothing else was touched or ruined. They only removed those parts and went their way.