Duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19725489 which was discussed yesterday?
Unfortunately that story was sinkholed by mods and this one too seems to be experiencing the same fate (it's dropping way faster than normal).
Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
91–100 of 134 posts
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#92To those unsure as to why this is particularly relevant: the Patriot Act is notable for drastically expanding the surveillance powers of the US government [1]. I wonder what this lawyer will do at Facebook? [1] https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-su...
It isn't relevant, though. The PATRIOT Act had pretty broad support. Just because she helped write it doesn't mean that she supports it more than other lawyers – just that she's a talented enough lawyer to be working on such major projects. It's the same as complaining about individual multi-millionaires who optimize their taxes.
A popular poor decision is still a poor decision. We censure plenty of actions in history that were popular at the time. We should require people in positions of power and influence to be guided by an inner moral compass--not merely whatever is profitable, popular, or personally advantageous.
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can we stop making this comparison? At best it is naive at worst you're purposefully misrepresenting the argument. When people say "social credit score" they distinctly mean something different than "credit score" (you may get this hint by the extra word, "social"). A social credit system not only includes your finances, but as well as much about your behavior. Such as "do you buy cigarettes? How often?" FICO doesn't…
Do you not see any parallels between the two? FICO scores are borderline discriminatory because it turns out that social behaviors and group membership is correlated with those scores. FICO doesn't "care" if you're Muslim or black, but FICO scores can be absolutely used to discriminate against those groups.
This is a fair argument. But there were other factors in my argument. That social credit scores are used to determine more than "can you pay back your credit?"
It isn't hard to argue that FICO can be abused. But what's being argued here is that we don't need, nor want, a system that is more imposing than FICO. One that affects much more of your life, such as "can I use an airplane?"
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#94To those unsure as to why this is particularly relevant: the Patriot Act is notable for drastically expanding the surveillance powers of the US government [1]. I wonder what this lawyer will do at Facebook? [1] https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/privacy-and-su...
"I wonder what this lawyer will do at Facebook?"
Connections with powerful govt people?
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can we stop making this comparison? At best it is naive at worst you're purposefully misrepresenting the argument. When people say "social credit score" they distinctly mean something different than "credit score" (you may get this hint by the extra word, "social"). A social credit system not only includes your finances, but as well as much about your behavior. Such as "do you buy cigarettes? How often?" FICO doesn't…
The US justice scores like COMPAS absolutely cares about your skin color and your sentencing depends on it. It just doesn't have a sexy Chyna-BAAAD label next to it to attract your eyeball. https://epic.org/algorithmic-transparency/crim-justice/
COMPAS is only used for those already suspected of/have committed crimes.
A social credit system affects ALL citizens.
Yes, there's controversy with COMPAS and I think you'll find that those that don't want social credit systems likely don't like COMPAS. But bringing up COMPAS is off topic. Especially when you compare it to China.
Let's reiterate and make this easy:
Does dictate if you and use an airplane? Does it also dictate if you can get a loan?
If you answer yes to (exclusively) BOTH of these questions, then the program might be a social credit system. If you answered no to one or more, then the program is likely not a social credit system.
Note: The China system answers yes to both of those questions. FICO fails on the airplane question. COMPAS fails on both.
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Facebook probably has a lot of data on you regardless. Are you in any friends' address book? Do you use a loyalty card at the grocery store? Ever walk in a mall? Own a car? Pay property tax? Have a mailing address?
Futility is a terrible reason to stop fighting.
I didn't say the person should stop fighting or that fighting is futile. I was saying they are being naive if they think Facebook has no data on them.
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US justice scores like COMPAS absolutely cares about your skin color and your sentencing depends on it. It just doesn't have a sexy Chyna-BAAAD label next to it to attract your eyeball. https://epic.org/algorithmic-transparency/crim-justice/
COMPAS is only used for those already suspected of/have committed crimes. A social credit system affects ALL citizens. Yes, there's controversy with COMPAS and I think you'll find that those that don't want social credit systems likely don't like COMPAS. But bringing up COMPAS is off topic . Especially when you compare it to China. Let's reiterate and make this easy: Does dictate if you and use an airplane? Does it a…
Maybe the average social credit score in the US is higher than the average in China.
Being added to the no fly list could be the result of an equivalently low score under both regimes.
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Many people already have stopped using Facebook Yet it is important enough to public opinion that congress undertakes days of hearings with Zuck to try to control the news feed algo?
This is easily explained by the desire of politicians to grab some time on the news. I didn't see much Congressional behavior or followup that suggests they actually cared about (or understood) the privacy issue.
It’s not a privacy issue, it’s a censorship issue.
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#99"How can we possibly form a legal case that justifies mass surveillance?" 'I think I know just the guy...' Edit: I was going to pre-emptively delete this as a joke/low-effort comment, but I think it's a tad useful in highlighting what Facebook "use case" this lawyer would be good for.
I don't see your comment as joke/low-effort in this context. Facebook has repeatedly shown itself to be so morally bankrupt that such "jokes" reflect reality, and aren't jokes anymore. With impending regulation that will attempt to control and/or break up Facebook, this move is yet another sign that the company has no soul left in it.
Re: Facebook taps lawyer who helped write Patriot Act as new general counsel
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Asserting the presence of an "American Great Firewall" 2) Asserting the development of an American "social credit system" 3) Describing America's political atmosphere as an "authoritarian regime" 4) Describing Facebook as a "defense contractor" Come on, you know what you're doing
Some of the other stuff (the firewall) is clearly incorrect, but after thinking about this a long time, I think it's fair to label the current administration as having some fascists or fascist-curious/adjacent/whatever people. Authoritarian works too. Often, the term gets thrown around too freely by those on the left when they want to disparage someone on the right whose ideas they dislike, so it gets overused. But I…
Firewalls don’t only block traffic, they throttle it, log it, and shape it. The US/Facebook firewall is further up the stack than China’s and is more stealthy so rarely blocks any content.