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EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

zdnet.com

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Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#161

Post by deugtniet »

johnnycab wrote: post #157
deugtniet wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the point of disdain, Depardieu is a relatively well known Russian citizen and also a French public figure, so if you want someone from outside of the EU visa agreements, perhaps it's a good example of an individual like that? In addition, there's substantial pressure from member states to secure the border, and make it as efficient as possible. The governments of Italy and Hungary have practically been s…

>I don't see the point of disdain, Depardieu is a relatively well known Russian citizen and also a French public figure so if you want someone from outside of the EU visa agreements, perhaps it's a good example of an individual like that? He famously gave up his French passport [1]. The official document features his picture issued via a legitimate Department/Executive agency [2]. If I didn't know any better, that lo…

Actually, I’m not implying that. What I’m implying is that this department uses images of public figures for them to give good examples of individuals. As said in my previous comment, Depardieu is a well known public figure, and he allows the use of his images in other public places, so his use in government documents is justified.

Trump is on there as well. Do you also want to complain about his depiction?

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#162

Post by raxxorrax »

ben_w wrote: post #142
raxxorrax wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany requires all citizens to have a biometric ID card Partially true for your picture, that is restricted to the ID itself. And that is a relatively recent addition. You can still get an ID with "imperfect" biometric photo, which you provide yourself. Biometric photo is defined by some rudimentary rules (you are not allowed to use a picture of the back of your head) that isn't comparable to fingerprints in any…

> heh, have you written a test? Fair. I suppose I expect important problems to be tested automatically by reality, but I don’t really know how Common Law systems handle that, and I’m completely unfamiliar with Civil Law systems.

Well, I doubt there are fundamental differences, but a lawyer might disagree. I believe any form of law system needs to reflect our intuitive fairness or it will fail at some point. It is of course imperfect, like any crafted law, but fundamental for the acceptance of the judiciary. If the law is applied with help of precedents or text doesn't matter that much in the end.

But besides the point, requiring every citizen to be able to ID himself with biometric data is the bug, not a solution to anything.

Something national socialists knew very well. Although technologically restricted, there are unmissable parallels to legislation like this. This is legislation crafted from fear and opportunism. Not a single problem will be solved.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#163

Post by throw0101a »

orbifold wrote: post #148
oAlbe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sorted into categories of capabilities Artificially and massively genetically engineered and bred into categories, not sorted. It's an important distinction.

The breeding and sorting is largely redundant given that Humans follow a capability bell curve naturally. Singapore, China try their best to tease apart that curve as accurately as possible. So does Israel (everyone takes an Intelligence test at 18 and this factors into which University classes you can attend, the Army unit you get assigned to and if you receive unsolicited Job offers by Intelligence Agencies (Mossad…

I'd probably not want the results to be put into a central database, but I think this testing may a be a good idea in general if the only person that knows is the test taker.

A lot of people have no idea what to do as a career, so both an IQ and a Big Five test may allow people to know more about themselves. I know Myers-Briggs is unscientific, but something like it could also help in determining good career paths.

Have one test towards the end of elementary school and another at the end of secondary. (People can of course take them more often if they wish.)

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#164

Post by johnnycab »

deugtniet wrote: post #161
johnnycab wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't see the point of disdain, Depardieu is a relatively well known Russian citizen and also a French public figure so if you want someone from outside of the EU visa agreements, perhaps it's a good example of an individual like that? He famously gave up his French passport [1]. The official document features his picture issued via a legitimate Department/Executive agency [2]. If I didn't know any better, that lo…

Actually, I’m not implying that. What I’m implying is that this department uses images of public figures for them to give good examples of individuals. As said in my previous comment, Depardieu is a well known public figure, and he allows the use of his images in other public places, so his use in government documents is justified. Trump is on there as well. Do you also want to complain about his depiction?

I would genuinely like to see another example of public figures used in such a way in EU official documents?

D Trump is used generically, it is not asscociated either to a nationality or a figure. NO photograph is provided.

Edit: There is a thumbnail of Donald Trump. However, same principle applies.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#165

Post by vangelis »

vixen99 wrote: post #17
raxxorrax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. There is no database in some countries. I am not going to give the EU biometrical data, even if that means skipping some "services". Edit: I would also guess it is incompatible with recently introduced legislation.

Good luck with that! For instance "New EU regulations for transaction authentication which go into effect next year are expected by Mastercard to significantly increase the use of biometrics for purchases". You can be sure that eventually no one will have a choice if they want to lead any kind of normal life. Obligatory capturing of biometric data at many airports is just getting going. For the ex-USSR - the Soviet R…

More like the future advertising companies want.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#166

Post by franch »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #154
christudor wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We don't care if you object and irrespective of your views, this project is going ahead." The EU seems to have done this for at least twenty-five years, the prime example being their stubborn insistence on monetary union despite the mountains of expert opinion saying that monetary union made no sense economically.

This misses the point. You could also say that monetary union between the US states makes no sense economically. The point is that the people decided to have a political union and to belong to the same country, the USA. Monetary union follows. The aim is to have a federal union in Europe. In a way, going straight to monetary union is to 'force' further political union because they know full well that it requires it i…

> The aim is to have a federal union in Europe. In a way, going straight to monetary union is to 'force' further political union because they know full well that it requires it in order to work.

Sorry, but I disagree. There is no consensus whatsoever in the EU about a federal Union. There is not even consensus on a budgetary union (as in shared debt, not just having a shared currency) because it will reflect badly on states that currently have stronger economies in the EU: https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-lithuania/merkel-say...

Actually, to be fair, every time there was a popular referendum even the EU Constitution has been rejected by the population (it only passed later by the parliament): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitut... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Dutch_European_Constituti...

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#167

Post by christudor »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #154
christudor wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We don't care if you object and irrespective of your views, this project is going ahead." The EU seems to have done this for at least twenty-five years, the prime example being their stubborn insistence on monetary union despite the mountains of expert opinion saying that monetary union made no sense economically.

This misses the point. You could also say that monetary union between the US states makes no sense economically. The point is that the people decided to have a political union and to belong to the same country, the USA. Monetary union follows. The aim is to have a federal union in Europe. In a way, going straight to monetary union is to 'force' further political union because they know full well that it requires it i…

The big mistake the EU made was assuming: (i) that monetary union would foster political union, and (ii) the people of Europe actually wanted political union in the first place. I don't think either are true.

I think we more or less agree with each other, by the way. It's important that the political situation matches the economic situation. I just don't think you can use the economics to force the politics, if you see what I mean?

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#168

Post by jkaplowitz »

jacobush wrote: post #46
nutjob2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, besides the possible expense, having a one year passport must be a pain. It's essentially valid for 6 months less the time of your trip since most places require six months validity beyond your departure from their jurisdiction. It's like you almost have to apply for a new passport for each trip! Also having a one year total duration is sure to attract attention from foreign authorities, they'll assume you're re…

I have, it was no issue. Also, you can get it within the hour. But it is expensive and you will get some weird looks. I haven't tried going the US with it.

Even if the US does accept the passport without a problem, it will still fingerprint and photograph almost every visitor whether or not the passport contains those biometrics. Canadian short-term visitors, and of course US citizens/nationals, are the main exception.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#169

Post by Mirioron »

raxxorrax wrote: post #69
Mirioron wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than 10 years. Don't forget the Data Retention Act that required ISPs to keep logs of every single IP you visit and collect it in a database.

How could I forget. People start asking for VPN, even non-techies. I still believe it to be illegal. But many rules were already broken...

It was found to be illegal. The ECJ struck it down in 2014: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-area-o...

It doesn't mean that there can't be national legislation that does something similar "for fighting crime" though.

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