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EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

zdnet.com

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Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#31

Post by raxxorrax »

nutjob2 wrote: post #14
raxxorrax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. There is no database in some countries. I am not going to give the EU biometrical data, even if that means skipping some "services". Edit: I would also guess it is incompatible with recently introduced legislation.

So you're never going to hold an EU passport or never enter the EU? Do you feel more comfortable giving the same information to the US?

No, I am not. The US implementing "security" is a embarrassing failure in my opinion. They even created a whole new pointless agency. Probably didn't have enough already...

My national ID is valid for 10 years from now and does not use any biometrics. It was optional, but if I had chosen to add biometric information, it would just be on a relatively insecure device but not in any database. That is a huge difference. Not that I would accept either. So the problem is postponed at least.

It will be inconvenient, but managable. Even if credit card usage will be more difficult, but there are alternatives.

I fully acknowledge to be the weird dude paying the car in cash.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#32

Post by arethuza »

Daniel_sk wrote: post #12
tapland wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen. Most Swedes do have passports though.

Interesting fact. I thought that having an ID card is pretty much mandatory in whole EU. In Slovakia you get one at age of 15 (I think) and it has biometric data - picture and fingerprints. You are not required by law to carry it with you, but it can cause delays if need to be verified by police or other authority. It’s also used to login into e-gov services with a card reader and your pin - but it’s quite limited at…

Definitely not the case in the UK - in fact there was quite fuss made when there was a plan a few years back to introduce ID cards.

Mind you I suspect mostly people do carry 'official' identification documents on them most of the time (e.g. driving licenses) but there is no requirement to actually have these on you at all times.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#33

Post by dfawcus »

Daniel_sk wrote: post #12
tapland wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Sweden very few people use national id-cards. Most people have ones issued by banks. A lot of people became painfully aware of this when they were refused re-entry into the country with their other ID-cards when border checks towards Denmark were implemented, since it's common to commute to Copenhagen. Most Swedes do have passports though.

Interesting fact. I thought that having an ID card is pretty much mandatory in whole EU. In Slovakia you get one at age of 15 (I think) and it has biometric data - picture and fingerprints. You are not required by law to carry it with you, but it can cause delays if need to be verified by police or other authority. It’s also used to login into e-gov services with a card reader and your pin - but it’s quite limited at…

Definitely not in the UK.

We had them after WWII until sometime in the 50's when they were removed due to abuse by the authorities. Hence there is still a distrust of them. The scheme recently introduced and then scrapped could have had some interesting consequences.

This is part of why we have such "fun" with the free movement provisions, in that we do not have a population register. Nor a requirement to keep the authorities notified of where we live.

Hence unlike the other EU countries, we can not enforce the 90 day limit on EU folks being here without means to support themselves.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#34

Post by jstanley »

mschuster91 wrote: post #28
zaarn wrote: post #6

Merging existing databases into one big one might be more accurate but that's modern journalism.

No, this is not "just" a merger! Prior to this latest crap, the databases were separate, including separate access controls, on a "need to know" basis. Now a shitload of agencies and their agents across the EU, including in untrustworthy countries like Poland, Hungary and Austria, can access all the sensitive data in one place. This is NOT good.

Not to mention untrustworthy countries like the UK, Germany, and France.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#35

Post by raxxorrax »

mschuster91 wrote: post #30
TomMarius wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you select these particular countries, especially Austria, as an example?

Simple: Poland and Hungary are under multiple investigations for turning their systems to "illiberal democracies". Austria is on the list because their right-wing party FPÖ is in control of the security agencies (both police and secret service and military), which has led other EU countries to restrict information exchange with their secret services ( https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/spionage-... ).…

I feel the need to defend "illiberal democracies" once again: They didn't implement this shit. They would certainly like to, but they are not the problem. The current problem is the EU as an institution that implements policies based on fear. Not some fringe parties with limited success...

You just don't point the finger on someone incontinent while your pants are soaked. Totally not classy.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#36

Post by peteretep »

mschuster91 wrote: post #30
TomMarius wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you select these particular countries, especially Austria, as an example?

Simple: Poland and Hungary are under multiple investigations for turning their systems to "illiberal democracies". Austria is on the list because their right-wing party FPÖ is in control of the security agencies (both police and secret service and military), which has led other EU countries to restrict information exchange with their secret services ( https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/spionage-... ).…

Solid explanation, and even if I feel that including Austria on the list feels a bit OTT, you've linked to a credible news-source showing that it's a valid concern among intelligence agencies. Shame on anyone downloading your comment.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#37

Post by mschuster91 »

jstanley wrote: post #34
mschuster91 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is not "just" a merger! Prior to this latest crap, the databases were separate, including separate access controls, on a "need to know" basis. Now a shitload of agencies and their agents across the EU, including in untrustworthy countries like Poland, Hungary and Austria, can access all the sensitive data in one place. This is NOT good.

Not to mention untrustworthy countries like the UK, Germany, and France.

[flagged]

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#38

Post by sirkneeland »

arethuza wrote: post #32
Daniel_sk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting fact. I thought that having an ID card is pretty much mandatory in whole EU. In Slovakia you get one at age of 15 (I think) and it has biometric data - picture and fingerprints. You are not required by law to carry it with you, but it can cause delays if need to be verified by police or other authority. It’s also used to login into e-gov services with a card reader and your pin - but it’s quite limited at…

Definitely not the case in the UK - in fact there was quite fuss made when there was a plan a few years back to introduce ID cards. Mind you I suspect mostly people do carry 'official' identification documents on them most of the time (e.g. driving licenses) but there is no requirement to actually have these on you at all times.

My favorite song on the Pet Shop Boys' 2006 album Fundamental ("Integral") was a protest against Blair's Identity Cards Act

"if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear / if you've something to hide, you shouldn't even be here"

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#39

Post by raxxorrax »

return1 wrote: post #25

this is a necessary step forward if we want to create a borderless union where you can't trust your neighbours.

Underrated criticism. The EU currently isn't going in the direction of a borderless union. 15 years ago, I would have thought that a sad development. Currently not so sure anymore. Legislation from EU bodies has been abysmal the last 10 years, not only relating digital spaces.

Re: EU votes to create gigantic biometrics database

#40

Post by ahje »

vesinisa wrote: post #21
ahje wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was rather shocked when I tried to get across from Copenhagen to Malmö with a Finnish national ID card, only to discover it wasn't valid valid for entering Sweden. Luckily they saw reason and let me through after a while but it must be horrible for the daily commuters. When I lived in Copenhagen a few years back the commuters numbered in the 10000's. I can imagine that number has gone down a lot recently.

You were without a question dealing with an incompetent border officer in that case. Finnish ID card issued to a Finnish national is a valid travel document to all EU countries, to all Nordic countries, and to Switzerland. Additionally, for the citizens of all Nordic countries, no official travel documents are required to other Nordic countries in the first place. There is only a requirement to "be able to prove your…

From what I could tell, it was an employee of the company that runs the trains and not an actual official.

But yes, I kinda expected a regular ID would be enough, just as it has been in the past.

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