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China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

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Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#241

Post by frostburg »

GuiA wrote: post #221
frostburg wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leica distancing itself from the ad isn't a good look. The company is not very relevant for actual "working" photographers today (I use one, but tellingly photography isn't a real job for me), but it once was and at the time they stood up to their own homegrown totalitarian regime by helping jews escape Germany disguised as transferring employees.

Like many “classic” camera companies (Polaroid, Voigtländer, etc), “Leica” today is a name controlled by various holding entities and private equity firms. While it might bear the same name, it has very little in common with the original company (the one that saved the lives of hundreds of Jewish employees).

This is not actually true. I mean, it's not under the ownership of the Leitz family, but it's basically steered around by Kaufmann and is more or less in continuity with its past (to the point that they moved back to Wetzlar).

Voigtlander is a brandname used by Cosina.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#242

Post by dethac »

saagarjha wrote: post #164

> “Do you even deserve to collaborate with our patriotic Huawei?” one Weibo user said about Leica, according to SCMP. Is this an actual sentiment that Chinese citizens have?

China has more than a billion people. It might be the sentiment ONE Chinese person may have, or even a group, but one Weibo user does not represent a significant fraction of Chinese citizens.

And no, I'm not even sure many people know that Leica collaborates with Huawei.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#243

Post by dethac »

nercht12 wrote: post #165
ralph84 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what end? It was 30 years ago. The Eight Elders are all dead. You really think a bunch of westerners tutting at China about lowlights in their history will do anything other than galvanize Chinese nationalism?

It needs to be talked about anyways. For every 100 nationals who laugh or scorn, 1 person hears about it and starts thinking "Hm... maybe what I've been taught here isn't so true. Maybe things really are bad here." We need information to make decisions. One side providing all the info leads to biased thoughts. It's exactly what's happening here in the US. People pick their news source (CNN, FOX, etc) and gradually be…

Thing is, for a majority of people, life in China is perfectly normal (other than maybe air quality and population density, but the Chinese government has tried hard to combat those issues).

Most people are able to live normal lives where the government doesn't really have a massive influence. Even if it does, it's usually in terms of infrastructure development (transportation, housing, etc.), which can be done much more rapidly than in, say, the US (look at high-speed rail deployment in China over the past decade or so).

Plus, what's the alternative? China would be trading their fast-paced economic expansion and massive infrastructure investments (necessary to keep pace with the expanding number of people in China) for more... freedom?

And I think that's really the key here. The Chinese government is NOT incompetent and they're able to more than adequately provide for their citizens' needs. So, who would WANT a revolution?

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#244

Post by zachguo »

When I was still an undergraduate student in China, the 4hr film The Gate of Heavenly Peace was available in our school's internal torrent network.(Tons of censored content was available there.) I and my buddies watched it together in our dorm, with high expectation. But we were quite disappointed, and wondered why the CCP censor it so firmly at all. The event is neither bloody nor aspiring.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#246

Post by helloindia »

dforrestwilson wrote: post #67
jccalhoun wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the few times I've tried to bring it up with Chinese students at USA universities they have all been blasé about it. They have all been, "that's just the way it is." That could be because they just don't want to talk about it. Or because they are mostly from rich families and so they really don't care. Or only kids from loyal families are allowed to go to school overseas.

I have asked many as well. I believe it is partly cultural pressure to conform, but mostly because they all have family back in China still and care about what happens to them. I have also heard, but have not been able to verify, that any Chinese student who studies abroad must become a member of the Communist Party.

"Chinese student who studies abroad must become a member of the Communist Party." . The chinese international students in US, have to become member of the Chinese Students Association. The association is a front for the Chinese govt via their Embassy to monitor the students.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/14/exclusive-chinese-gover...

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#247

Post by techntoke »

JasonGenova25 wrote: post #138
techntoke wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, you have a great point. However, most of the content on Hacker News is controlled by a small group of people who have specific agendas. I wish they would be fair like you mention, but you have to be part of that small group.

could you elaborate? I have heard of these invite-only HN groups, but I have a hard time believing people would care so much about some online forum.

After being here long enough, you'll just notice that certain companies and agendas get pushed pretty hard, when in reality they are using a lot of accounts to manipulate the discussion and emotion once you start looking at the comment history. It is no different than Reddit or Twitter.

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#248

Post by yrlihuan »

dx87 wrote: post #77
apo wrote: post #40

The Chinese are innovating totalitarianism faster than any other country. Take this, for example: > ... When undergraduate students at Peking University, which was at the center of the incident, were shown copies of the iconic photograph [of Tank Man] 16 years afterwards, they were "genuinely mystified." One of the students said that the image was "artwork." It is noted in the documentary Frontline: The Tank Man that…

That reminds me of an interview with a Chinese esports team I saw at a tournament a few months ago. The interviewer was doing a light-hearted game where they showed twitch emotes to the Chinese team and asked what they thought the emotes meant. One of the emotes was a frog (the creator of the game goes by IceFrog), and the Chinese translator said that the players weren't allowed to say anything about the emote. We la…

You get the whole thing wrong.

In China, Toad King Warship (膜蛤文化) is very popular in some people, espcially young ones. There are tones of memes and internet jokes around that and obviously nobody gets into trouble because of it.

I don't know why your interviewer told you he was afraid. A wild guess is that he was one of those young people who loves Toad King Warship, and your ice frog reminded him of it. But it's hard to explain it to a foreigner (or he find it inappropriate to mention in an interview. it's a sub-culture anyway). So he just say he cannot say about it. As you further asked for reason, he gives you the answer you have in mind, by acting as victim of surveillance state (another culture thing).

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#249

Post by lpu4o74p »

> ad agency F/Nazca Saatchi & Saatchi

Ads do really seem increasingly likely to transport some political/ideological content. Is this happening the customer's explicit request, or are agencies and/or their individual creatives surreptiously hitching a political/ideological ride at their customer's risk and expense?

Re: China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media

#250

Post by perlwle »

whoevercares wrote: post #114
baby wrote: post #80

I have a question that maybe Chinese people here can answer. How patriotic are chinese people? How critical are they about the government and how many people (especially outside of China) approve of them?

We make fun of the leaders and the systems all the times. Most private comments in my close circle are pretty critical(“wtf is this brainwashing Xuexiqiangguo app”). And I think overseas Chineses could show up as more patriotic than they were in China, because most of us had never been discriminated even slightly before or ever heard so many bad news for their motherland. Chineses overseas are also pretty self-proud,…

haha on the Xuexiqiangguo app. I frequently hear complaints from people who have to use it.

I agree pretty much what you said. But I am in the motherland.

And to elaborate more on what you said.

There are lots patriotic people and vice versa, and the patriotic voices are often heard on the net. You won't hear much the other side because it's censored.

I was once on the side of making hard change. i.e overthrow the Gov. But the more I stay here and saw what have gone through in other countries, the more am I inclined to the side of soft change.

With 1.4 billion people, a hard change will be devastating to everyone and the rest of the world. It's just too easy to wonder why the Chinese haven't stood up to the Gov and not thinking about the consequences, esp You won't be the one doing it. And most of the Chinese are living a good life here and it's just too much to risk for.

I think the Gov has to screw up big time to stir up the hard change and I don't like to see it happen.

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