more centralization, great. why not make search itself distributed by broadcasting the queries recursively and gathering results?
The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
61–70 of 132 posts
Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would users notice for many searches? Obviously it wouldn't be useful for news or social media, but for practically everything else a latency of a month would be fine.
It absolutely breaks any use for information produced in the last month. Here's a few things that come to mind: While you say "news" really that covers any information about current-ish events. It's not just "what happened today" but background on things like the Muller report right now. Any technology release, or update. Reviews of any hardware or software. Information about security vulnerabilities. Film reviews. G…
What you’re describing is just news on the latest updates representing a small slice of the market. Making the remander far from useless.
Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#63Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#64I've always thought it would make more sense if each web server could be responsible for indexing the material that it serves (and offer notifications of updates), so instead of having to crawl everything yourself, you could just request the index from each domain, and then merge them.
A significant problem with this is trust. You can't trust websites to reliably or accurately index their sites due to both incompetence and malice. I don't think there's any way around the malicious component. Formal or informal standards may take care of the competence factor with the feature being built into common publishing platforms. XML sitemaps are a microcosm of putting the indexing onus on websites instead o…
It would be pretty easy to verify whether or not the index is accurate with a small random sample of pages on the site, and then penalize / exclude (or do a de-novo crawl) for those sites not providing a legit index.
Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#65I've always thought it would make more sense if each web server could be responsible for indexing the material that it serves (and offer notifications of updates), so instead of having to crawl everything yourself, you could just request the index from each domain, and then merge them.
A significant problem with this is trust. You can't trust websites to reliably or accurately index their sites due to both incompetence and malice. I don't think there's any way around the malicious component. Formal or informal standards may take care of the competence factor with the feature being built into common publishing platforms. XML sitemaps are a microcosm of putting the indexing onus on websites instead o…
Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#66It seems like the idea is recommending the Open Web Index (has its own website). I like a modified version of this. I think that it should be a p2p technology and not try to create one meta-index but rather be many domain-specific ones, with one or more tools or DBs to select which indices to search given a query/context. Are there any decentralized alternatives to Google out there already? I think that also this ove…
Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#67Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#68The benefits of this would be a standard for Wysiwyg editors (goodbye million rich text editor projects, Markdown and even Microsoft Word), and more semantic markup for both search engines and accessibility.
Right now it takes millions of man hours to create a performant browser, which is limiting those engines to only the largest organizations. Even Microsoft gave up making their own. And even with all that effort, I still can't create a clean HTML document with an interface as rich as MS Word, or even add bold or color formatting to a Twitter post, or update a Wikipedia page without knowing wiki markup.
We need to pull the dynamic, JS powered side of the web out from the core, limit CSS to non-dynamic properties, and standardize on an efficient in-document binary storage akin to MIME email attachments so HTML docs can be self-contained like a Word or PDF doc.
This document-centric web could be marked off within a standard web page, so you could combine it in regular interfaces for things like social network posts. Or it could be self standing, allowing relatively large sites to be created with indexes, footnotes, etc., but served from a basic static server.
This isn't a technical challenge, it's an organizational one. I've thought for years that Mozilla should be doing this, instead of messing with IoT and phones, etc. It's such an obvious problem that needs addressing, and would have a huge payback in terms of advancing the web as we know it.
Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#69A few of us out there are also working on small directories:
* https://href.cool (mine)
The thought is that you can actually navigate a small directory - they don't need to be five levels deep - and a network of these would rival a huge directory, avoid centralization, editor wars, single point of failure.
Re: The Web is missing an essential part of infrastructure: an open web index
#70I've always thought it would make more sense if each web server could be responsible for indexing the material that it serves (and offer notifications of updates), so instead of having to crawl everything yourself, you could just request the index from each domain, and then merge them.
The top-level problem is fan-out. If you want to fan the query to the top million domains (far too few to match Google's retrieval depth, but enough to demonstrate the issue), you're going to need to implement some sort of multi-level fanout, since just one machine can't send enough HTTP requests -- nor even establish that many connections -- in a reasonable time-frame. There are going to be severe tail latency issues that will prevent you from gathering documents from potentially relevant sites. You will have to make frustrating tradeoffs about when to time-out per domain queries to provide a good user experience. And many more issues besides. All decisions that are unnecessary if you control the index. Also, internet bandwidth isn't cheap, and you're going to need a lot of it just to consume the top ten results from a million sites.
The next technical issue is that the inverted index is only a small part of what goes into information retrieval. Scoring is at least as important. Modern scorers are multi-level, meaning they do one pass over many documents on a simple, correlated representation of the data. Then they do a second pass on a more comprehensive form (i.e. the whole document, and metadata about the document), but over fewer documents. There can even be third and fourth passes. The data for the first pass is often embedded directly into the index, and it would be challenging to come to any kind of agreement among stakeholders about what data should be embedded. This goes double for the second and subsequent passes. Moreover, those second and subsequent passes often use data about the document, rather than data in the document. Data a site owner would be unable to provide or even incentivized to falsify. Not less than these problems is the issue of where to run the scorer code. If you're running it locally, you're operationally 90% of the way to the complexity of an inverted index. Why not go all the way?
Then of course there are the economic issues, which, roughly, are: "Why should I pay all this money to host an index of my site that nobody uses when Google will do it for free and charge me nothing?"