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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#511

Post by lrem »

darrmit wrote: post #117

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

I'm on a 2013 retina and wouldn't swap for the new ones even if somebody paid me to. It has regressed in a bunch of ways and the only thing I would get for that is a slightly faster CPU. Which doesn't really matter. If I had a significant workload, I would not put it on a laptop anyways.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#512

Post by TheOperator »

gnicholas wrote: post #448
tzakrajs wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.

I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.

The lack of emphasis of good input is absolutely maddening when people were buying macbooks with lousy specs for the price, low-res displays for the price, who absolutely loved the fantastic trackpad, adequete keyboard, and good build quality.

Now the devices are getting more fragile and the keyboards aren't even average they're junk. The touchbar is shit. Apple seems to be regressing to their form over function puck mouse days.

Meanwhile desktop consumers are realising how undervalued input has been for a long time and are buying $100 keyboards in great quantities.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#513

Post by astrodust »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #485
tzakrajs wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.

Pretty asinine comment. Most heavy duty computing is done on cloud systems these days.

There are niches like video editing, but those are increasingly becoming GPU dependent.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#514

Post by TheOperator »

vernie wrote: post #459
tzakrajs wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.

The only substantial difference between my 2011 MBP and 2018 MBP for what I use it for (browsing the web, the lightest of computation) is that the 2018 model has really sharp edges that make me hate carrying it around. For my heavier workloads even the latest, top-of-the-line MBP is completely inadequate.

Which is a shame since MBPs were once the fastest Windows laptops on the market. I don't think the form factor really allows for a true workstation laptop anymore akin to say the Lenovo W series.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#515

Post by TheOperator »

cmiles74 wrote: post #324

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

I think laptops SHOULD be water resistant actually and that it's bullshit to not be able to eat and drink at my computer. So I buy durable computers instead of the MBP. Probably the only think that's truly inadvisable is drinking stuff like sugary drinks and milk at the computer because that crap is really hard to clean. Drink water.

I've always liked Lenovo computers ability to take a spill.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#516

Post by culturestate »

marmaduke wrote: post #502
culturestate wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea. Could be some OS X package oddity, or maybe they just like to AirDrop stuff to themselves? In any case, I suspect if you do a little discovery with that person - what specific problem are you trying to solve by staying with a Mac? - you'll find the answer. You might even be able to convince them to change their order if you find it's something that can be easily worked around in a way they hadn't thou…

Also since you mentioned research, in my domain people buy those MacBooks because they can, because they are a status symbol, just to run Word and read PDFs, because all the big people in our field have macs. I see this as a cult to be honest.

Have you considered that, alternatively, those people choose Macs because they find them nice to use or that they prefer OS X to Windows? The Apple cult definitely exists, but the anti-Apple cult is equally real and to be honest they both blow my mind.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#517

Post by criddell »

gnicholas wrote: post #448
tzakrajs wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.

I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.

I don't need peak processor power, but I sure would like a modern processor underclocked for battery life.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#518

Post by TheOperator »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #505
camelNotation wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are Thinkpad keyboards the most comfortable and satisfying on the market, you can literally pour water on them and it will drain out the bottom of the laptop without ever touching internal components. After using my Thinkpad for about six months, I can't go back. The keyboard is amazing, build quality is rock solid, screen is 4k with 100% RGB, and you can actually upgrade the thing. I buy a laptop because I…

Note that I believe the water pouring trick does not apply to the Thinkpad Carbon X1. I killed a third gen X1 years ago from a water spill. Luckily Lenovo fixed it for $500.

It really irritates me how much of a form over function bad laptop the X1 is. Yet Lenovo won't sell stuff like their best screens with say their T-series lineup so you have to make compromises either way.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#519

Post by TheOperator »

jammygit wrote: post #346
scarface74 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in no way defending Apple’s keyboards and there are some real issues with tiny bits of dust completely ruining a keyboard, but normal laptops have always been susceptible to even a little liquid damage. But if your coworker couldn’t just go to his manager, tell them what happened and the company paid for it, that says more about the company.

I know somebody who spilled a whole slurpee into a cheap desktop keyboard once and had it continue working fine. I would pay extra. To have a laptop like that for sure.

Desktop keyboards have wider tolerances to work with even if they're cheap. Lenovo has managed to figure out how to make a spill-proof laptop keyboard though.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#520

Post by TheOperator »

jammygit wrote: post #489
gnicholas wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A desktop keyboard is a completely different story than a laptop. It can be much thicker and therefore more mechanical than a laptop keyboard. I don’t need my laptop to be slurpee-proof, and given the trade offs of laptop design I hope it isn’t. I’d think this would add significant heft to the device to be able to guarantee such performance.

Fair enough, but I'd just say that I don't mind an extra half inch if the device weighed the same. IMHO, 10 year old 13 inch laptops were plenty small, but I do appreciate the lower weights

I wouldn't mind a bump in weight just because of how stupid the compromises have become. Maybe not back to 6 pound laptops but still.
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