Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

thesoundingline.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 93 posts

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#61

Post by SilasX »

NoblePublius wrote: post #49
SilasX wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I don't think you should be downvoted to oblivion, but this is a hard point to get right. Yes, we should account for technological improvements in the quality of our lives. In fact, it's the only way to have long-term improvement in real, appropriately measured consumption. And yes, there are creature comforts you can buy today that were darn near impossible back then. But ... you need to weight these improveme…

The $249 TV brought a billion Asians and Latinos out of extreme poverty. If you can afford the TV, you are the 1%.

No, nobody left poverty because the price of a bigscreen TV fell below $250.

Edit: nor were the jobs provided by that factory a proximate cause.

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#62

Post by danans »

rayiner wrote: post #45
kaycebasques wrote: post #28

Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…

The article is misleading in an important respect. While real wages haven't budged much (they certainly haven't declined), benefits, which are tax-advantaged relative to wages, have increased quite a bit. For example, while wages rose 3% since 2000, benefits rose 22%: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... . The changes you're talking about regarding quality of life more have to do with incre…

> The article is misleading in an important respect. While real wages haven't budged much (they certainly haven't declined), benefits, which are tax-advantaged relative to wages, have increased quite a bit. For example, while wages rose 3% since 2000, benefits rose 22%: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us....

Despite the article not mentioning benefits, the primary reason for the increase in benefit costs is the skyrocketing increase in cost of healthcare (which is mentioned in the article you provided), which we know has inflated faster than the CPI for decades:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_prices_in_the_Unit...

The only other significant component of employer-provided benefits, retirement contributions, has if anything been cut back via defined contribution plans of today (i.e. 401ks), rather the generous defined-benefit (AKA pension) plans of the past.

And things like transportation subsidies, etc are marginal compared to healthcare expenditures.

So it's not as if the increase in employers' benefit spending is being experienced by most workers as in increase in utility. Therefore, the spirit of the article, which is that workers have received little real[1] value from the GDP increases of the last 40 years, is still correct.

What the article doesn't address, but your article does, is the fact that wages are recovering unequally, with most of the gains going to the highest earners.

1. I'm not counting ever cheaper electronics and entertainment in my definition of "real".

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#63

Post by tathougies »

kaycebasques wrote: post #28

Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…

I guess I find the shock that this worked out rather strange. My parents immigrated to this country 30 something years ago. My dad was a salesman and my mother a teacher and they managed to raise two children, send us to private school (catholic, so cheaper than others), pay for music lessons, support my grandparents and aunt who lived with us for a while, and sponsor my entire family. And they owned their home and bought land.

The fact is that americans are not very frugal people and waste their money. If immigrants who came to this country in the 80s managed to do this, there is no excuse for a native born American. My mother even went to college again because her degree wasnt accepted and she wanted to be a teacher. Thrift and sacrifice go a long way

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#64

Post by wavefunction »

tathougies wrote: post #63
kaycebasques wrote: post #28

Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…

I guess I find the shock that this worked out rather strange. My parents immigrated to this country 30 something years ago. My dad was a salesman and my mother a teacher and they managed to raise two children, send us to private school (catholic, so cheaper than others), pay for music lessons, support my grandparents and aunt who lived with us for a while, and sponsor my entire family. And they owned their home and b…

>no excuse for a native born American

Racial disparities along with systemic racism could provide an explanation. Attained education levels as well. Just some thoughts.

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#65

Post by wutbrodo »

wavefunction wrote: post #64
tathougies wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I find the shock that this worked out rather strange. My parents immigrated to this country 30 something years ago. My dad was a salesman and my mother a teacher and they managed to raise two children, send us to private school (catholic, so cheaper than others), pay for music lessons, support my grandparents and aunt who lived with us for a while, and sponsor my entire family. And they owned their home and b…

>no excuse for a native born American Racial disparities along with systemic racism could provide an explanation. Attained education levels as well. Just some thoughts.

Immigrants' racial makeup would, on average, predispose them to more systematic racism (in the negative direction) than native-born Americans, no? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#66

Post by Bombthecat »

SlipperySlope wrote: post #2

High tariffs on imports help to bring back USA manufacturing no doubt. All sufficiently large economies should protect their domestic industries with tariffs. Otherwise its a race to the bottom for labor wages.

Story time : from my boss his son is specialized in factory logistics for production lines. He helps plan to build streets transportation plans how much when where how etc.

He looked into jobs in us and Japan / China.

When he looked at the US it was basically : planning canceled, canceled, stopped, pushed back for later etc etc. So he moved now to China.

So, from a data point of one. It does not look so great...

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#67

Post by uxp100 »

refurb wrote: post #52
kaycebasques wrote: post #28

Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…

A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of land in Tahoe (which my family still has to this day) I can guarantee you right now, you could buy a home and a plot of land that will be out of reach for most people 40 years from now. The question is - where will that be? Your grandparents probably had no idea…

Lake Tahoe has been popular way longer than you are giving it credit for. It's had tourists for over a hundred years, and Squaw Valley hosted the Olympics in 1960.

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#68

Post by coldtea »

binalpatel wrote: post #58

Inflation adjustment is weird across time and geographies. I'm not saying the article is wrong, but just something to keep in mind. In 1973 the internet was nascent, we didn't have smartphones, insulin was still hard to produce, and so on. Even making the same amount "inflation adjusted" as 1973, our lives are much richer in part to all these advances. As an example - it's likely in adjusted terms someone in the top…

>Inflation adjustment is weird across time and geographies. I'm not saying the article is wrong, but just something to keep in mind. In 1973 the internet was nascent, we didn't have smartphones, insulin was still hard to produce, and so on. Even making the same amount "inflation adjusted" as 1973, our lives are much richer in part to all these advances.

Or much poorer. Smartphone means FOMO, constantly accessible to bosses, less interaction and more wasted hours with BS apps (people are starting to treat it as addiction), and the "easier to produce insulin" is balanced by skyrocketing healthcare costs, much more stressful lives (including being worked to the bone, and with no "company loyalty" anymore), and loss of quality of life in many important ways...

It's just that for many US people, "access to BS gadgets" (which nobody missed in the 70s because they didn't exist anyway) trumps other qualitative life factors that don't even register. I think e.g. Europeans would appreciate those much more...

>As an example - it's likely in adjusted terms someone in the top 1% a 100 years ago would be close to the top percentiles today, and yet it's pretty easy to argue that the average person today is still doing much better in almost any measure than a 1%-er from a century ago.

Regarding quality, meaning of life, friends, lifestyle, etc, or just based on access to stuff?

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#69

Post by akozak »

tathougies wrote: post #63
kaycebasques wrote: post #28

Now that I’m a bit older (29) it’s fascinating to reflect back on my childhood and teenage years in the context of economic trends. I’ve been interviewing my grandpa to make a biography of his life and it’s mind-blowing to hear about how different the 50s were. A teacher (grandpa) and a part-time worker (grandma) supporting 2 babies and a senior (great grandma), yet still able to buy a home in Millbrae and a plot of…

I guess I find the shock that this worked out rather strange. My parents immigrated to this country 30 something years ago. My dad was a salesman and my mother a teacher and they managed to raise two children, send us to private school (catholic, so cheaper than others), pay for music lessons, support my grandparents and aunt who lived with us for a while, and sponsor my entire family. And they owned their home and b…

Worth remembering that housing (and I presume land) is far more expensive than it used to be.

https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/census/historic/valu...

Re: US Wages Finally Get Back to Where They Were in 1973

#70

Post by dsfyu404ed »

wavefunction wrote: post #64
tathougies wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I find the shock that this worked out rather strange. My parents immigrated to this country 30 something years ago. My dad was a salesman and my mother a teacher and they managed to raise two children, send us to private school (catholic, so cheaper than others), pay for music lessons, support my grandparents and aunt who lived with us for a while, and sponsor my entire family. And they owned their home and b…

>no excuse for a native born American Racial disparities along with systemic racism could provide an explanation. Attained education levels as well. Just some thoughts.

A friend of mine's grandparents retired quite comfortably after selling the Chinese food restaurant they ran for many years. They were farmers in China but after the second time an invading army took everything they decided not to stick around for the third strike. They showed up in a dying rust belt city without the ability to read and write English, say nothing of cultural differences and they did just fine.

The point of this anecdote is to point out what we often take for granted. Even if a sizable minority of Americans are subject to systemic racism native born Americans at least have the ability to transact business in English which gives them a pretty good head start and I think that on average that more than make up for a systemic disadvantage applied to a fraction of the population.

Post reply on HN