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Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

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Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#41

Post by Tomte »

JohnFen wrote: post #33
beat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Especially mass-market paperback fiction and the like. If the book is rare, or has deep sentimental value, keep it or pass it on to someone who will enjoy it. But "because I may read it (or read it again) someday" is not a good reason to keep them. And not every book needs to be donated or resold. If you don't want it, chances are very few others want it either.

> If you don't want it, chances are very few others want it either. I don't think this is a good benchmark at all. It's a natural human tendency to think that we each are representative of "most people", but that's very often not actually true. I prefer to donate unwanted books to the library, thrift shop, or used book store. Those organizations are in a better place to judge what most people want and what they don't…

My experience is "if I wanted it, nobody else will".

Lisp in Small Pieces. Sure, here on HN many people would be interested in it. In a smallish town, even though there's a technical branch of a nearby university? Forget about it.

English books? The library isn't interested (for good reason, they have limited shelf-space and very little demand for English books, there are two shelfs of English fiction and that's it).

And even university libraries. I once asked them to buy Compiling with Continuations by Apple. A real classic. No, they won't. Too old, they won't spend money on that. Especially since it's available in several libraries throughout Germany. I am certain they would have zero interest in most of the computer science and programming books on my shelf.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#42

Post by craigzucchini »

beat wrote: post #16

Virtue signaling goes both ways. Yes, there's plenty of middle class progressive virtue signaling in having a little free library, but there's also plenty in bashing them as a threat to the public library system. Progressiver-than-thou is a seriously annoying thing. My own gripe against them isn't the virtue signaling, but rather the KonMari problem. People who read tend to treat books as sacred. Throwing books out i…

"Listen, I hate virtue signalling as much as the next guy, but have I told you about how I'm using book giving as a vehicle to dismantle racism by proxy of my spouse?"

I don't think you could have made this point any better.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#43

Post by wowFuckYou »

beat wrote: post #16

Virtue signaling goes both ways. Yes, there's plenty of middle class progressive virtue signaling in having a little free library, but there's also plenty in bashing them as a threat to the public library system. Progressiver-than-thou is a seriously annoying thing. My own gripe against them isn't the virtue signaling, but rather the KonMari problem. People who read tend to treat books as sacred. Throwing books out i…

  and get the white kids 
  images that look like 
  someone else.
I guess no one has ever told you that you're a total racist.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#44

Post by JohnFen »

Tomte wrote: post #41
JohnFen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't want it, chances are very few others want it either. I don't think this is a good benchmark at all. It's a natural human tendency to think that we each are representative of "most people", but that's very often not actually true. I prefer to donate unwanted books to the library, thrift shop, or used book store. Those organizations are in a better place to judge what most people want and what they don't…

My experience is "if I wanted it, nobody else will". Lisp in Small Pieces. Sure, here on HN many people would be interested in it. In a smallish town, even though there's a technical branch of a nearby university? Forget about it. English books? The library isn't interested (for good reason, they have limited shelf-space and very little demand for English books, there are two shelfs of English fiction and that's it).…

One of the very nice things that libraries (both public and university) can do is to make use of the interlibrary loan system. A surprising number of people don't know this exists.

Through it, you can borrow books from any library that is part of the system, which is almost all of them -- so even very specialized or obscure books that your local library won't carry can be ordered through them for borrowing.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#45

Post by dtornabene »

Something I'm not seeing represented in the comments: Libraries are already under attack. The library in my hometown was the subject of national reporting for the attempt by theocrats to attempt to remove gay parenting books from the library. It was vigorously protested by members of the community, the state ACLU actually sent someone to speak at our county commissioners court meeting. Its still ongoing and the fight has shifted terrain, but my point is that things like the LFL are used, again and again, as ways to undermine state institutions. When individuals and groups with a motive to attack and undermine a specific institution can point to an alternative that allows them to say they aren't actually, say, anti-intellectual, they will do that. On top of that, its worth pointing out that libraries represent the spectrum of human achievement and failure on their shelves. There's a beautiful quote on the wall in the downtown branch (Harold Washington) that goes something to the effect of "libraries are a record of both human genius and stupidity". Librarians are there to make sure that books that are records of our past, that may not have wide cultural currency, are not only preserved and defended, but accessible to the public for free. Exchanging that for an upper middle class located box of, truth be told, overwhelmingly Dan Brown style potboilers seems like a really bad call. Librarians as a group are one of the fiercest defenders of free speech we have in this society, and we subtlety undermine them when we crow about "free" boxes of mass market paperbacks and, at least in texas, where for awhile I stopped constantly to check, lots and lots of conservative Regnery-type political screeds and Protestant apologetics.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#46

Post by checkyoursudo »

fedorareis wrote: post #29
Tomte wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've finally come around to think that it's okay to throw books into paper collection. It feels wrong, viscerally. You do it hoping nobody is watching you. But that feeling is stupid. It's ecologically okay to recycle paper, and the books you're throwing away aren't one-of-a-kind. You're not depriving anyone of the book, they can lend it from a library or buy it themselves.

Personally my solution to this is either giving the books to a thrift store or donating it to the library. Then it at least has a chance of finding a new owner, but if not they can decide to recycle it.

I just donated 200+ books. They were ecstatic to receive them. It's a reasonably good way to go. Plus, what they don't want or won't sell, then they can decide what to do with so that I'm not a book murderer. My book conscience is clean.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#47

Post by hprotagonist »

beat wrote: post #28
hprotagonist wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to bet? Library budgets are on the front lines, and have been for decades.

The people who build and use LFLs are the most likely to support a well-funded public library system, not the least likely. That's one of the key conceptual failings of the article.

i can easily imagine a NIMBY who doesn’t go to public libraries because they might get the poor on them, but puts a box at the corner of their street because it’s cute and raises property values.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#48

Post by ianbicking »

Causality1 wrote: post #7

"Little Free Libraries predominantly appear in medium- to high-income neighborhoods" Because they don't want them vandalized or raided. "registration fee of $40 to use the Little Free Library name." OK, legit criticism. The idea you can trademark a phrase as generic and descriptive as "Little Free library" is bullshit.

Looking at the map of my own neighborhood, I'd be surprised if half of the Little Free Libraries are registered.

If I didn't have a lot of money, but had some scrap wood to make a little something for my neighbors to use, I sure as heck wouldn't spend $40 to register it!

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#49

Post by beat »

craigzucchini wrote: post #42
beat wrote: post #16

Virtue signaling goes both ways. Yes, there's plenty of middle class progressive virtue signaling in having a little free library, but there's also plenty in bashing them as a threat to the public library system. Progressiver-than-thou is a seriously annoying thing. My own gripe against them isn't the virtue signaling, but rather the KonMari problem. People who read tend to treat books as sacred. Throwing books out i…

"Listen, I hate virtue signalling as much as the next guy, but have I told you about how I'm using book giving as a vehicle to dismantle racism by proxy of my spouse?" I don't think you could have made this point any better.

Truth.

That said, I'm not calling for the abolition of either public libraries or little free libraries. I'm just saying we need to be clear about our goals when we do things (especially social justice things). If the goal is "put more books in the hands of poor kids" as an act of personal charity, then there are better ways to do it. Hence the example of my spouse.

There's a lot of intellectual dishonesty in the virtue-signaling claims of those in the article. It's not the virtue signaling itself that's the problem, it's being dishonest about the motivations of others for selfish aims.

Why do people put up LFLs? To share something they love. To decorate their yards. As a statement of culture for themselves and their neighborhood. Dismissing it as "virtue signaling" is deliberately derogatory. And this sort of argument is rife in the social justice movement in general. As someone who wears the "social justice warrior" label proudly, I'm not fond of the warriors who prefer circular firing squads.

Re: Against Little Free Libraries (2017)

#50

Post by ianbicking »

dtornabene wrote: post #45

Something I'm not seeing represented in the comments: Libraries are already under attack. The library in my hometown was the subject of national reporting for the attempt by theocrats to attempt to remove gay parenting books from the library. It was vigorously protested by members of the community, the state ACLU actually sent someone to speak at our county commissioners court meeting. Its still ongoing and the fight…

Who is using Little Free Libraries to attack the necessity of actual libraries? I've never seen that. The one instance they talk about is a mayor of a small suburb putting up some LFLs because the metro area library system started to charge a fee for access.
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