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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t have to tune Linux to get it to work, then why does every single complaint about Linux’s battery life in laptops get met with “install TLP?” Of course Windows is shit in this respect too these days. I got two extra hours of battery life from my X1 Carbon by wiping the disk and installing Windows LTSB. But even then I still have to police things, watching for driver updates or software installs that rando…

> It’s like nobody tests these things. What's really happening is perverse incentive structures. Ideally all energy use of every app would be accounted for and, somehow, relayed back to the original "responsible agent" (e.g. a signed app being responsible for all its subprocesses). This then needs to be tied to some valuation.. in an app store, you could say e.g. lower commission based on energy efficiency, or just a…

Apple has public and private metrics for battery life that at least incentivize the internal teams.

There are also orders of magnitude difference between a sleeping device and an idle device, and an idle device to a fully loaded device. We are talking three weeks to 20 hours to 35 minutes. And that gap will only continue to get larger

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#402
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> normal laptop have always been susceptible to even a little liquid damage Check out Thinkpads https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/landingpage/small-business/reso...

I came here to say this as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U5n2WaMMHo I was a real dumbass myself one day and spilled a glass of water on my Lenovo in a cafe. I took it apart just in case to dry out, but I'm not sure I even needed to. I put it together and it was just fine. I have an Apple laptop for work and I work in cafes a lot. I assumed that Apple of all companies would consider this lifestyle issue, but…

Annecdata. I had someone accidentally knock a glass of water over a working T440s and it died.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they tried a Windows laptop and liked it This requires Windows to become likeable. I (and plenty of other people) will like Windows once it: * has a consistent UI instead of 3 control panels with icons and UI paradigms ranging from Windows 95 to Windows 10. * ships with quality applications that don't try to eat the entire screen to display 2 lines of text (pretty much all "modern" built-in apps are a disaster in t…

The lock screen is hilariously stupid. Every single time I pop open my surface go, I put in the first characters of my password, only to realize oops, I've gotta swipe up / press enter.

That is literally the worst implementation. Even Linux which fell for this stupidity too (GDM has a locksceeen) at least does the good thing that any typed character automatically dismisses the lock screen and is typed into the password field.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they tried a Windows laptop and liked it This requires Windows to become likeable. I (and plenty of other people) will like Windows once it: * has a consistent UI instead of 3 control panels with icons and UI paradigms ranging from Windows 95 to Windows 10. * ships with quality applications that don't try to eat the entire screen to display 2 lines of text (pretty much all "modern" built-in apps are a disaster in t…

don't mention the Enterprise edition which you can only get in volume, so no solution for freelancers & small businesses I agree with your larger point and most of your bullet points, but just as an FYI to anyone that's looking into Enterprise edition: you can get Enterprise licenses in small volumes. Because of various data security clauses in some of our contracts, and MS's refusal to discuss issues like HIPAA comp…

Just wondering as to why I have to deal with a reseller (and find one - it’s not like they just give you a link in the system settings saying “hey, want enterprise? Get it here!”).

This is one of the few places where their miserable App Store can make a difference, and yet they don’t even use it.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even with the issues above it still has an excellent display, I like the keyboard (waiting to start having issues), and the battery life is the best I’ve ever had. I don't understand this. I understand not liking Linux Desktop(I hate it, but LOVE LOVE LOVE Ubuntu Server, fav OS of all time) And... the screen is what has you sold on Apple OS? I'm flustered at this logic. Pretty screen-> Good operating system I only i…

It is good experience to be able to buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. Choosing among thousands of alternatives is pretty frustrating. What brand should I choose? HP, Dell, Lenovo, IBM, Acer, Asus, whatever? I need good display, fast CPU, good battery life, enough RAM. Pretty vague requirements. You are buying Macbook and it's just good, you don't have any regrets, because its CPU is o…

There are several Apple laptops buying once is still a decision to make based on cost. And it might not work out like mine where the space keeps on decreasing and on restart it comes back. If not for ios programming i would have preferred a windows/linux laptop.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#406
post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

I feel the exact same way and have always recommended Macs to friends, family and cwoorkers as the computere that "just works." I'm been suspicious of people who disagree with that sentiment — to each their own, but I don't think there's much dispuute that Macs just work.

Yet, now, heere I am with a 2018 MacBooko Pro that repeats keys randomly — somoetimes out of theorder they were pushed— andstarting to wonder if I need to change my recommendation. The laptop has been "fixed" twice now and always works just fine for a day or two before reevertinig back to the same old state. I clean the keyboard daily with compressed air, thouugh that's largely become a symbolic gesture that doesn't fix the issue but at least makes me feel like I'm not crazy.

All that said, much like the author of the article, I'm so bought in to the Apple ecosystem at this point that I've resorted to a certain kind of stooicism — thiis is apparently the set of circumstances I have been giiven and I must live with it.

(Note: no, I'm not too lazy to correct typos noor a partiicluarly poor typer — this post is the unedited resulut of typing on my broken keyboard. Just be happy double spaces don't show up by default in DOM elements.)

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly any Laptop you pay 1200+ on should "survive"(1) you _splashing_ Coffee on it, not just a view drops of liquid. It's totally technical doable in a number of ways and the only thing in its way is because you are fanatic about getting your laptop another mm thinner and/or profit margins. (1): Survive in the sense that it's in general fine and you at most have to replace some easy to replace not super expensive…

Apple has little motivation to fix durability issues. They've always been willing to prioritize elegance and form over durability anyway. This is a fine Italian motorcycle, not a Russian dirtbike, of course it has less tolerance for the user "using it wrong". Sure it would be nice if they made them more durable but that's just not the kind of product they are interested in making and it's working out well for them th…

So its good that macbooks break easily and are expensive to repair because it shows you are rich?

Riiiight...

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#409
post #14

> “So, just curious, why did you buy another one?” she asked, referring to the 2018 MacBook Air I’d gotten six months after selling the Pro. I was hoping she talked more about this part, but brushing it aside by bringing up "Apple ecosystem" is pretty unsatisfactory. It does tell you, though, that Apple has its target demographic by the balls, and broken keyboards are certainly not chasing them away. Macbooks will ge…

> they tried a Windows laptop and liked it This requires Windows to become likeable. I (and plenty of other people) will like Windows once it: * has a consistent UI instead of 3 control panels with icons and UI paradigms ranging from Windows 95 to Windows 10. * ships with quality applications that don't try to eat the entire screen to display 2 lines of text (pretty much all "modern" built-in apps are a disaster in t…

> * ships with quality applications that don't try to eat the entire screen to display 2 lines of text (pretty much all "modern" built-in apps are a disaster in that regard)

Windows never has shipped with a lot of built-in apps.

Calc used to start slow, not an issue anymore. It is also open source now and seeing more and more features being added to it.

> * has an App Store with decent, curated apps.

The app store has a much better selection, heck I installed Inkscape from it the other day!

Part of the problem is the Windows 3rd party consumer app scene died off when Mobile came around, and on top of that a lot of small utilities that are commercial on Mac have always been free on Windows, so the expectation of paying for smaller apps never was there.

The amount of creative apps available though, wow. Having a lot of pen first devices means there is a flood of apps using ink. The ecosystem there really impresses me.

But honestly? The number of 3rd party paid apps I am running that would be "app store appropriate" is number at 1 right now, and I have a fair number of third party apps running in the background to customize my machine.

The top Windows software consists of either large productivity apps (Adobe), free as in beer apps (Spotify) or free as in speech apps (Notepad++)

> * doesn't force a stupid phone-style lockscreen on non-touchscreen machines

I actually had a chat with the developers in charge of the lock screen. I honestly forget what it is doing, but I remember that the initial screen being shown is actually there for some good technical reason.

Also you can just hit any key on the keyboard to dismiss it. By the time my monitor has turned on it is gone.

> * has a start-menu search that actually works and doesn't surface irrelevant crap from their failed attempt at a search engine.

I've ranted about the start menu for years. Often times on this very site.

It, honestly, doesn't suck anymore. Except for on my ~8 year old Desktop that was upgraded from 7->8->10, with a number of insider/beta builds along the way. That machine has distinct issues with its video drivers and explorer loves crashing every few minutes making the start menu a no go. Having

But hey, dev machine, console is all I need anyway.

> * proper QA - since Windows 10 the quality has gone down the drain and it feels more like a half-assed Linux distribution except that it has ads and you still pay for it

Agree. Except, outside of candy crush (wtf MS), I haven't seen any ads.

My Mac keeps asking me to sign me up for a bunch of paid cloud services though. That is annoying. I can come up with a list of complaints about MacOS just as long as your list of complaints about Windows. And I've had Linux package managers run update and leave me with an unbootable system. (Hasn't happened for quite a few years now though, so fingers crossed and all that!). I guess that is one more thing Windows and Linux have in common now days. :|

As for MacBooks vs Windows, well, lots of Windows laptops have a superior keyboard, better specs, and the advantage of not paying an arm and a leg for proper RAM or a good sized SSD. Mac's do have those nice trackpads.

tl;dr everything is garbage quality has gone downhill, get off my lawn, someone please re-hire all the testers that got laid off years ago from apparently every tech company in the world.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#410

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

Not only are Thinkpad keyboards the most comfortable and satisfying on the market, you can literally pour water on them and it will drain out the bottom of the laptop without ever touching internal components.

After using my Thinkpad for about six months, I can't go back. The keyboard is amazing, build quality is rock solid, screen is 4k with 100% RGB, and you can actually upgrade the thing.

I buy a laptop because I need a mobile keyboard experience. Why on earth would I buy a laptop with a keyboard that feels awful and can't handle normal use?

Honestly, if I absolute had to have OSX, I would just buy a Mac Mini and deal with the stationary aspect of it. Macbooks are just that bad. If I desperately needed portable Mac, I would probably even be willing to deal with iOS on the iPad pro over a Macbook.

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